From goff747@yahoo.com Thu Nov 27 09:59:19 2014
Subject:Re: Odd little clone discovery
well norm you're going to have to learn how to call a spade a spade.
that was told to me by an american consultant who in fact made suggestions on the first wave of clones but management decided otherwise.
when you pay the checks you get to call the shots i guess.
he's still around and you're welcome to email him to ask his opinion on this.
"picking" on a designer is not the issue and it should not be brought in that direction. it is not an ad hominem, no need to go there. so fallacies of argument notwithstanding, you would think the discussion of getting closer to an authentic tonewheel sound (inclusive of other add-on american sounds) would fall to this group if not the others.
it is an observation. but based on ethnicity. an american banjo granted was adapted from a foreign instrument, is not the same instrument as the original and as it has progressed in american music, banjo players have managed to create a definitive sound. and sell the most banjo laden records on this still intact planet. guess we could say the same about pianos and guitars, violins. but that is a totally different scenario and a poor comparison in that acoustic pianos are still being built in mostly the same way. but not tonewheel organs.
it is now synthetic.
think wax-on wax-off grasshopper. or brittany murphy wanting to make real authentic ramen, yet her teacher kept throwing her soup in the garbage. she thought she was following everything she saw the master do, but fell short of the ideal mix. it took a japanese ramen expert to say what was what. he had the eye and the taste buds. after all they invented it.
don't you think this is the same thing with someone other than american trying to make american instruments?
the sensei in this case is the culture that invented the tonewheel/rhodes/wurli, and the many ethnic artists that propagated the development of the quintessential sound of the instrument to where a foreign ethnicity by virtue of economics was able to keep the instrument alive. you know who they are. you're doing tributes to them.
economics changed the sound-scape. the inventor culture became the advisers, not the decision makers.
it's what it is.
not crazy.
beg to differ bro..
who made the ramen?
g/
On Friday, November 28, 2014 1:11 AM, "Norman Peterson normswwworld@gmail.com [CloneWheel]" wrote:
What????
Maybe we are more used to hearing banjos!
Come on Goff...
Don't pick on Japanese designers!!!!
Crazy talk..IMOOn Nov 27, 2014 9:07 AM, "goff macaraeg goff747@yahoo.com [CloneWheel]" wrote:
as was mentioned before, the designers responsible for the ultimate decision on the sounds for these clones are not ethnicity to the the inventors. even if ethnic designers are used as consultants, it appears from some of those ethnics that were part of the first clones' design, who were asked to contribute ideas, in the end the decisions were made by those foreign to the original invention/inventors. hence you have quirks in the end sounds entered into these devices. someone who is more used to hearing a koto, will have a different ear than someone who is used to hearing a rhodes or a tonewheel.
g/
On Friday, November 28, 2014 12:55 AM, "Hammonddave hammonddave2004@yahoo.com [CloneWheel]" wrote:
This is the problem with some of these clones. The designers do exaggerate the sonic qualities as most musicians (consumers) have no idea what these classic instruments really sound like. Plus, being analogue instruments, no two Wurlies (or Hammonds, for that matter) sound alike. So what sound does the designer go after? The quality that separates a Wurlies from a Rhodes, and they highlight that quality.
You hear this all the time with Rhodes sounds. The bell is always exaggerated. Your band mates like it because they think it sounds like a Rhodes. But I would bet if you had a Rhodes next to it the sound would be different,
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Mark K mskremote@yahoo.com [CloneWheel] wrote:
Can't comment on hardware and don't have real ones to compare with but the exaggerated effect I find to be similar in the VST's I use. I am for ever modifying them to get a more realistic sound.From: den121961@yahoo.com [CloneWheel]
Sent: 27/11/2014 1:48 PM
To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CWSG] Odd little clone discovery
I am getting ready for an R&B gig this weekend. I usually do the whole thing on my SK2, but I just got an SK1. I thought since it's not an organ heavy gig like my normal stuff is, and since I take the VR09 as a backup anyway I'd try SK1 on the bottom, VR09 on the top and see how they work out with the setlist. I figured I'd do the organ and EP's on the SK and the other stuff (vibes, brass, synth stuff) on the VR. I've messed with the internal sim on the SK and found something livable for the R&B gig (the vent still goes for organ heavy stuff). So I'm messing with the set list, and I get to Sarah Smiles. That song has organ and Rhodes, but it's too complicated to cover both at the same time for this old guy, so I usually use a heavy phased rhodes patch on the SK. The band likes that instead of organ. Well, I thought I'd try some of the VR's EP's. I get to pure EP and pure wurly, and it's like whoa, these sound better than the SK EP's! I know nobody likes the SK EV's, but I had a nord down here, and a motif, and I compared all them along with the SK to the real deals (I have a rhodes and wurly in the studio). The SK was always the closest. But I never compared the VR. SO I fired up both the rhodes and wurly, the SK and the VR. After about two hours, again, the SK won to my ears.
My question is this. Is it possible that whatever the nords and some other boards do when they set up these sounds, they actually exaggerate some of the idiosyncrasies of these old electromechanical piano's kind of like a caricature artist does when he paints a cartoon of someone? I noticed this same thing when I did the comparison with the Nord Electro some years back. Honestly, when I compare the SK to the VR, the VR's EP's do sound more like what I imagine the rhodes and wurly to sound like. But when you add the real deal to the mix the SK takes it for realism.
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