From wes@page.ca Thu Aug 28 06:29:43 2014
Subject:Re: VR-09 review, was VR-09 Librarian

I figure I might as jump in here with a mini-review, too, as there seems to

be some interest in this forum.

I never really intended to buy a clonewheel. My main is gig rig is a
Hammond L111 spinet organ played through a Leslie 760; I play mostly rock,
and sometimes use a Leslie 51C when playing blues. On top of the L111 I
use a Yamaha DGX-620 -- 88-key hammer-action ROMpler with horrifically bad
organs.

My DGX-620 developed a fault in the key scanning matrix, which was causing
E and Eb notes to not sound when played legato, and my other stage piano, a
Yamaha PF-85, has too stiff/slow an action for me to use all night (I have
minor problems with the nerves that control my hands).

So, I drove to Long & McQuade in Ottawa (about 100 miles from my house) all
set to buy a Yamaha MOX8. Same action (basically) as my DGX-620, great
piano sounds, lots of usable cover band sounds, etc.....only I could not
bond with this piano. The user interface SUCKS. It took me 20 minutes to
figure out how to get a piano sound out of it, and doing anything on it
meant menu diving insanity. I HATE menu diving. My DGX-620 has a bit, but
no two-step menus, and THAT makes me angry. (My old Yamaha PSR-510 from
the 1990s has the best UI ever. One button per function, one function per
button, millions of little LEDs, and the best split/dual UI I have seen on
any keyboard, ever)

Well, I gave up on the MOX-8 and was ready to walk out the store when I
figure I should play everything else they had while I was there. I had
started thinking about getting a Hammond clonewheel that week, as I had
lost out on a potential steady gig because I couldn't get my organ into the
guy's basement to audition. I was also jamming with friends regularly, and
had a T-524 at the jam space, but I hate the sound of the T-series and it
was really a bit big for the room. And nowhere near loud enough, I was
taking the back off and miking the internal Leslie and still having a hard
time with levels.

The VR-09 caught my eye and I kept coming back to it. The tone of the
organ was more than acceptable, and the user interface is fantastic. It is
very very very easy to use the VR-09 in a fire-and-go situation. The
individual buttons for synth/organ/piano/clav/strings/brass make getting
the right character of patch very fast. You still have to use the
jog-wheel, but you are not menu diving here. The drawbars control synth
parameters - in particular attack and decay - when you're not using them
for organ. This is important in getting patch character right quick.
Splits and Duals are easy to set up, and moving the split point is a
snap. Moving up and down an octave is a single button-press too, which is

good as the keyboard has only 61 keys (like a console organ).

The organ was good, too. I had played a VR-700 on a previous trip to this
store, but the organs weren't this good. The keys may have LOOKED more like
organ keys, but the VR-09 ones FELT more like organ keys to me. The organs
in the VR-700 were not as convincing, although I liked the piano better.
The organs in the VR-09 are quite good, and the type 2 Leslie sim is
great. I have the VR09 set up to sound substantially like my L111/760
combo. You can definitely hear the drum accelerating, etc. The transistor
organ in the VR-09 is good, too, I have a really good "Light My Fire" kind
of sound on the go.

Back to the keys. These have received a lot of criticism online, but I
don't think they deserve it. First off, if you are judging organ keys by
their shape rather than their playability, you are a fool. The keys on the
VR-09 are physically the same size as the keys on a Hammond organ, but
hinge is closer to the back of the key. This means you need a bit more key
pressure on the back of the key than you do at the front ... to equalize
it, they would have to make the inside part of the key about 5" longer,
like a Hammond. Of course, this would make the whole instrument wider,
heavier, and more expensive.

The keys are technically "diving board" keys, but don't let that fool you.
They do not have the thumb/finger-web-catching problem that diving board
Hammonds have, as there is no lateral motion as in 50-year-old Hammonds
with worn key combs. The front of the keys are also slightly curved so
that you palm can slide across the front easily. They have a slightly
stronger spring force than a Hammond organ, probably around 2 Oz, but that
is not really an issue IMO. Roland has a "high trigger point" mode on the
VR-09 which is in use when in organ-only mode. This means that the keys
don't have to get all the way down to make a sound. These factors combined

make this a very responsive keybed with a good positive feel once you get
the hang of it. And you can gliss and smear like mad on it without fear of
injury.

I've played the VR-09 side-by-side with the VR-760. In some ways, I
preferred the 760, for example, the drawbars. I played them both through a
Roland amp, I think the KC-880, in mono. I thought the base tone of the
VR-760 was slightly better, but the Leslie in the VR-09 more than made up

for that. I found the tone of the VR-09 to be a bit too bright that night,
e.g. playing the tremolo part in AWSOP it was bit chalkboard-nails, but
turning down the treble on the amp improved that...now I know that you can
tune that in the VR-09 too, with the "Organ High" menu option.

I've played the VR-09 as an organ at a dozen jams now, it does the job
quite nicely. I still prefer my main gig-rig, but this thing will fool all
the non-organists in the audience (except the ones who hear with their
eyes). And packing 12 lbs of VR-09 is much better than 225 lbs of organ,
120 lbs of Leslie and 30 lbs of DGX-620!!!!

Craig mentioned packing a VR-09 + X stand as a light weight rig. I am
thinking about getting a K&M 18880 to go with mine. Even lighter, even
smaller, and sets up just as fast (or faster than) an X-stand.

I take the VR-09 to most of my gigs, even though I never use it. Why? It
weighs 12 lbs and if something goes wrong with my antiques (or my DGX-620),
I can whip it out and finish the gig without issue. (BTW - I have since
repaired the DGX-620. That was a nightmare, but at least it's done.)

I have the M-Audio expression pedal with my VR-09. I would prefer
something with a wider sweep, such as the Yamaha FC-7 (suitably modified
or used with the Ashby adapter)..however, I have managed to get acceptable
performance out of it. The secret is to dial the M-Audio pedal so that it
gets quiet, but not too quiet, when you're all the way back. That's how a
real organ works, anyhow. Once you set that, select your expression curve
in the VR-09 and you should find it quite usable.

Now I am starting to integrate the VR-09 into my rock band set list, even
though I have not found a good way to put it on stage (I dislike visual
mayhem and do not like being hidden from the audience). The extra sounds
are just too tempting. We recently added "Just What I Needed" and I was
able to pretty much nail the synth sounds used in that song (I'm not a real
synthy guy, although I love my old FM gear). I'm also starting to re-work
some of our other tunes to add the better patches in the VR-09. It may not
have 500 voices like the DGX, but the fact that I can control modulation,
compression, delay, reverb, tone, attack, decay, sustain, etc, etc, makes
it much more usable. I especially like the strings on this thing "in the
mix". "OB Strings" sounds great on "New Girl Now" when dialed in properly,
freeing up my other hand to play "Fargo" (a coarse saw with lots of
movement) on the DGX.

Conclusion: I rate this a "strong buy" clonewheel. There are many minor
limitations, but no major ones for a typical classic rock, prog rock,
blues, etc, player. It would be difficult to beat this rig for anything
less than double its price. In fact, you would have a hard time finding
used gear for the same money that sounds as good.

Jukefox - there is no way to route outputs on this board. And I don't
think Craig is likely to become a grandma anytime soon. :)

Craig - Congratulations!! :)

Wes

On 26 August 2014 12:28, Craig MacDonald ccmacdon@rogers.com [CloneWheel] <
CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>

> Since two people have asked for my opinion on the VR-09 I will post it
> here rather than sending private emails... BTW I'm killing time waiting for
> my son to call announcing the birth of my first grandchild.. he and his

> wife are in the hospital this morning (while I write this) having a baby!!!
> So this review will be as long it takes for them to get things done.. ;-)
>
> BACKGROUND..
>
> So just to set the record straight, I've never been much of a fan of the
> Roland VK engine.. I always thought it sounded a bit off.. and I'm not sure
> how to explain this but to me it's always simply sounded less authentic. I
> almost bought an original VK7 and a VK88, and I've spent a lot of time with
> a VR700 and a VK8m (in the retail store where I worked for couple of
> years). That said, the VK engine is much improved when it's coupled with a
> Ventilator (or a Burn).
>
> My impetus for buying a VR-09 was the desire for a light drawbar organ for