From jukefox@jukejoynt.com Tue Aug 26 21:14:49 2014
Subject:RE: VR-09 review, was VR-09 Librarian

Craig, is there a configurable output matrix on the VR-09, such that one could route the VK-7 module out to Burn/Vent independently of the other sounds, while maintaining at least 2 stereo images? I could probably go look it up at Roland's site, but I'm too lazy and they couldn't provide me with the peripheral information as to whether you've managed to become a grandpa or a grandma by now.


Best,
Fox


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Since two people have asked for my opinion on the VR-09 I will post it here rather than sending private emails... BTW I'm killing time waiting for my son to call announcing the birth of my first grandchild.. he and his wife are in the hospital this morning (while I write this) having a baby!!! So this review will be as long it takes for them to get things done.. ;-)



BACKGROUND..



So just to set the record straight, I've never been much of a fan of the Roland VK engine.. I always thought it sounded a bit off.. and I'm not sure how to explain this but to me it's always simply sounded less authentic. I almost bought an original VK7 and a VK88, and I've spent a lot of time with a VR700 and a VK8m (in the retail store where I worked for couple of years). That said, the VK engine is much improved when it's coupled with a Ventilator (or a Burn).



My impetus for buying a VR-09 was the desire for a light drawbar organ for small gigs, as a back up for my Mojo, and basically something that could provide me with flexibility (I didn't want to drag my Mojo/Kronos to every gig/rehearsal). Prior to getting the VR-09, I had purchased both an SK1 and a Numa and neither worked for me. Both were defective and had to be returned, in the case of the Numa the service as was awful as was the midi implementation, so it was returned within 30 days, and the SK1 was defective out of the box with noise Extra Voices. I returned the SK1 within 24 hours and decided it wasn't going to work for me. The SK1 organ was OK but the Extra Voices weren't very good, and neither were they particularly comprehensive (they didn't cover everything I needed) and the SK1 could split/layer two sounds but one of them had to be organ (which I thought was too limiting for my needs).



Despite not particularly liking the VK engine, I heard about the VR-09 (a Namm report I think), and I started investigating it, and I thought hey for under a grand I'll give the VR-09 a try (assuming that if I didn't like it I would just return it). So I ordered one through my local music store, AND the Roland rep happened to bring an early production unit into the store around the same time, and I was able to actually try it in March of last year, and I liked it (enough to take a chance on it) and mine arrived in April (if I recall correctly).. As it turned out I think I had the first VR-09 in North America (or so it seemed based on the forums I participate in) so everyone was looking to me for my thoughts on it, AND somehow I became the goto guy for questions (how does this work, how does that work etc). At the same time, because I liked the VR-09, I also became the target/victim for a whole bunch of people who hated the fact that the VR-09 had made some compromises to get the cost and weight down. I ended up in huge battles with various people here and on other forums, simply because I thought the VR-09 was good value.



INITIAL REACTION



Since I was looking mostly for a drawbar organ, my first reactions had to do with the drawbar organ sounds and surprisingly, when I got my VR-09 home and plugged it in, I actually liked it. I didn't particularly like the default organ sound (it was very VK-ish) but it took me about 30 seconds to find a good organ registration ("Bay Area B3) and I found that by tweaking that registration a bit, I had a great sounding organ.. Was it going to take the place of my Mojo.. NO but it was certainly good enough for my cover band. However, I wouldn't say that the VR-09 is good enough for any situation.. I'm not sure you'd want to use it in a 3 piece jazz ensemble, where organ was the main focus, but it's quite a capable instrument and there are lot's of situations where it would be quite useable.



Along with my impression that the drawbar organ was quite useable, the leslie was much improved (not quite ventilator yet but pretty good), and I couldn't get over the value/features that were packed into this 12 pound keyboard!! There was this overwhelming "WOW, $999" that kept going through my mind as I tried the various features, effects sounds, splits and layers.. This thing is incredibly easy to use and incredible value! A good sounding drawbar organ, plus a comprehensive set of great sounds (pretty much everything you could want), plus a full virtual analog synth.. and it really struck me that it had a lot of different uses:



- great entry level all in one keyboard for someone starting out who wanted drawbar organ

- single keyboard for rehearsals or small gigs, quick set ups

- it could act as back up for my Mojo (drawbar organ)

- backup for my Kronos (with all of it's various samples and synth capabilities)

- Standalone with an external 88 note weighted action keyboard controller connected via midi using a split with the VR-09 as an upper drawbar organ, the VR-09's acoustic piano (or whatever) being played on the lower weighted action controller.



ORGAN



So as I said the organ is quite acceptable! It's not quite a Mojo, but its very useable. My understanding is that the VR-09 uses the VK7 engine (because the engineers felt it was grittier/ballsier) and they've updated the leslie sim (they now have 3 sims type 1/2/twin) the difference between type 1 and 2 is akin to the emphasis on the rotor vs the horn, so type one is much brighter with emphasis on the horn and type 2 is mellower with more emphasis on the rotor. Twin Rotary is part of the MFX section, rather than part of the organ section, and you can use it along with the organ rotary sim, or instead of.. and I've played with this and you can get a pretty wide variation of leslie sounds using these 3 sims. Are they ventilator/burn quality, no absolutely not, but they are much improved when compared to the original VK sims, and they are quite useable. The VK sim is NOT as tweakable (so don't expect angle/distance and other deep leslie sim parameters, but they do have ramp up down times and speed parameters as well as a few other useful parameters).. The two other areas of weakness in the VR-09 organ are overdrive and percussion. The overdrive is kind of crappy, and like a lot of sims it goes from 0 to Jon Lord as you turn the dial a quarter turn and beyond that it's unusable mush, but that's no different than a lot of drawbar organs. The problem with the percussion is that it goes through the C/V, and this will irk some people (although some like myself couldn't care less). The other negative thing about using the VR-09 as a dedicated drawbar organ is the fact that it doesn't have waterfall keys (see Keyboard comments) and it doesn't have dedicated buttons for everything like a normal 3 series organ.. so it has a C/V on/off button but it doesn't have a dial or buttons to adjust which type of C/V this is done in a submenu.. HOWEVER, the submenu does appear when you press the C/V button, and it's relatively easy to change C/V types but it's not so easy that you'd do this in the middle of a song. This is the same way that the Percussion works. There are dedicated buttons for most important things.. upper/lower drawbar, C/V, Perc, split.. Overall the organ sounds good, the interface is very workable for my needs. The VR-09 also has a built in Combo Organ engine.. I'm not going to spend much time on this except to say that it sucks.. (it's really lame, the biggest issue being that unlike all the other VR-09 sounds the combo organ doesn't cut, or have any balls).



KEYBOARD



The keyboard is an area that has received a lot of criticism, however there are also a lot or people, like myself, who have found it fine and very easy to get used to.. It is without a doubt a low end keyboard, with keys that are a bit shorter than normal. Someone coming from an acoustic piano background may not like it (at least initially). Roland have done some things to make it quite playable, for example having a high trigger point for organ sounds.. and I have to say that there isn't much I can do on a real hammond that I can't do on this.. slurs/glisses etc.. are all easy. I've gotten used to the VR-09 for other sounds such as AP/EP/Clav etc.. but it's clear that some will like this keyboard and some won't. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a high end quality keyboard in a low priced product.. so in this case you get what you pay for.



VA SYNTH



The VA synth is great, and it's the same synth thats in the Jupiter 50/80, although stripped down (number of voices is less on the VR-09 version).. but it has the same PCM waves (over 350).. and it's capable of making pretty much any sound that the VR-09 doesn't come with.. So for instance someone asked me if the VR-09 had bagpipes (I think it was bagpipes) and it doesn't but when you look at the VA synths PCM waves sure enough there are a Bagpipe wave for you to build your own sound.. Someone asked if it had mellotron sounds, and it doesn't but I was able to create a reasonable facsimile simply using a string sound and the effects. When you compare these great Roland Jupiter style sounds and the capability of this VA Synth to what you get in competing boards (like an SK1/2 for example).. the VR-09 wins hands down, in fact it just blows them away.. You just can't compare a small number of synth samples in an SK1 to a full fledged big fat Jupiter synth! I'm not trying to pick on Hammond Suzuki (although some will think that), I am just trying to make the point that this is an AWESOME feature!! (if you use it/need it).. for my classic rock band having a great sounding synth is a must and the fact that I'm not limited to some small number of samples gives me the flexibility I need to cover pretty much any synth sound I need.. Roland has come out with an update of free VA synth sounds, available free through the AXIAL site that are great.. 70's 80's 90's signature sounds. Kudos to Roland to build this great synth into this board!



IPAD EDITOR



The iPad editor is free and available as a download from Roland.. It is a great way to edit the Organ and the VA synth.. the Organ is displayed nicely with all features visible available and available for editing.. Same goes for the VA synth.. You need the editor to get at deep synth edits..! This is important to know.. so on the VR-09 you can edit high level parameters such as ADSR and filter (using the drawbars) but you cannot edit deep parameters such as PCM wave.. for this you need the editor.. By the way, it's not inconceivable that you could use the iPad editor in a live situation to control things like C/V Percussion live (to make up for the VR-09's lack of dedicated buttons).. or edit the synth parameters live.



OTHER SOUNDS



The other sounds AP/EP/Clav/strings/horns etc.. are all very good.. Again you're not getting Rolands supernatural piano in this $999 keyboard but you are getting their top of the line samples.. So all are very good, and it's a very good cross section of sounds.. pretty much everything you need is there. Whether you hate/like/love the EP's, AP's, Clavs is a matter of taste, but the sounds are all quite good and the general consensus is that the cut very well through the mix!! You do have the option to edit any of them and/or layering them (layering two AP's can give you a GREAT sounding AP).. In fact Sweetwater provides a bunch of great registrations with their VR-09's and they're mostly splits and layers. VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE, that the VR-09 is capable of layering ANY TWO SOUNDS so if you want to layer Electric Piano with strings, you can do that (you cannot do this on an Electro or an SK1).. this is a significant advantage over competing keyboards, even the higher priced ones.



REGISTRATIONS



The VR-09 has 100 registrations available to store splits/layers, variations and combinations of sounds.. they are VERY flexible and can store most parameters (sound/octave/transpose/midi etc).. They are easy to access using the rotary dial, saving them is very easy, just create a set up you like and hold a registration button to save just like saving a car radio station (the menu will allow you to select a particular registration).. The registrations are set up in 25 banks of 4... which is a little cumbersome to work around especially since there only 4 registration buttons, no up/down button (although you can use the rotary dial). The bigger problem for me is that there is no cut/paste/insert buttons so if I want reorder my registrations to correspond with a set list, I cannot easily do that. However registrations are really intended to be used in conjunction with the user interface which itself is VERY easy to create splits/layers, transpose etc.. The fact is that you can create almost any common setup from scratch in seconds using the VR-09 interface, makes this an excellent keyboard for live performances despite the imitations of the registration architecture. The registrations can be saved/loaded to USB, so it is possible to create and save/load multiple registration sets to correspond with your different bands or different set lists (however, again the lack of cut/paste/insert makes this a tedious process).



USER INTERFACE



The user interface is fantastic.. there is no other keyboard on the market that I am aware of that has an interface that can do so much so easily.. Splits/layers, access to sounds, the effects section.. you can conceivably have no sounds/registrations prepared, and create splits and layers on the fly in seconds with ease at a gig. The organ section is very easy to access (all buttons and controls are right be the drawbars.. the effects sections, including tone control, are organized together with 6 dedicated knobs. There are 3 easy to access modes (organ, piano, synth) the layout of the user interface is absolutely fantastic. That said, it has a relatively small display, and but the deeper editing parameters are all organized very well.. The VR-09 also has a "looper" function and it can play wave/mp3 files from a USB stick. There is also the legendary Roland D-Beam (I say with a sarcastic tone) that can be used for a number of things.. the truth however is that it's a cute controller that few people actually use for anything.. I have used it for leslie speed control. But sometimes just using the joystick is the easiest.. and yes the VR-09 has a joystick rather than pitchbend/modwheels.. That is my preference.. others may not agree.



QUIRKS AND EFFECTS



Right up front, as capable as the VR-09 is, it is/was very quirky (I say is/was because some things have been fixed), and it had/has certain limitations. For example while it has a great effects section, and a really easy user interface, but it is what it is, and the effects aren't as tweakable as you might see on a workstation.. So for example you can add/select an MFX and you have control over it's "intensity" but that's it. By intensity, I mean that it's some predetermined parameter(s) which may be depth and speed (eg flanger) and you can't JUST edit depth, you don't have that level of control. In defence of Roland, the effects are awesome with a very easy interface to access them, and the effects parameters are all pretty much common sense, and intuitively set exactly the way most people would use them. However, for some, the limited editability could be an issue. There are also some limitations to the capability of the VR-09 when using effects with layered sounds, and when using two layered sounds, the upper effects will affect the lower part in some cases.. using the drawbar organ on the upper part of a layer, and an acoustic piano on the lower part (of a layer) the AP will go through the leslie.. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH A SPLIT, ONLY A LAYER! So it's pretty easy to work around this problem, especially when using a second keyboard with the VR-09 you set up everything as a split, the external keyboard controls the lower part, and it's easy to set up virtually any kind of split with a different sound on each keyboard and the only effect that affects both is the reverb (which is how I would expect it to work). The other area of quirkiness of the VR-09 has to do with storing/editing synth sounds. First of all you cannot edit the onboard sounds.. so if you want to take the built-in strings and edit the attack, you MUST save that sound as a registration because the VR-09 does not have the capacity to edit the onboard samples themselves. Secondly IF you take a particular VA synth sound and you create two different variations of the sound and save them into two different registrations, both registrations will be affected by any changes you make to the source sound.. This is hard to explain but has to do with the VR-09 synth architecture which is a little weird. I believe that each VA sound has one, and only one, buffer in which to make changes.. and while you can make multiple changes to the sound and create multiple copies of that sound in various registrations, your edits affect all registrations that use that initial VA sound. It's also a bit quirky when saving the VA synth sounds because the VR-09 saves the deep synth edits to the same file on the USB stick which overwrites any other file that exists there.. It's weird and stupid. But this issue only affects deep synth edits, and you can work around it, for the most part, but it's a pain in the ass.



RELIABILITY/BUILD QUALITY



I have always found Roland products to be pretty reliable, however there is no doubt that this is an entry level keyboard with a lighter less expensive keyboard, buttons switches and controls. That said, I have heard of a single problem anywhere. My VR-09 has worked perfectly from day one.. no problems whatsoever! The OS updates were very easy (and Roland has provided two updates so far with another coming shortly I believe). Roland has also been very responsive to user requests/issues, fixing some of the most annoying design issues with the very first update. That said, both my SK1 and my original Numa had problems from day one, and I have heard of a number of problems with both keyboards, but no such issues with the VR-09. My point being that lightweight doesn't mean poor quality. The VR-09 seems very good so far (I've had mine for almost a year and a half).



SUMMARY



The VR-09 is not for everyone.. those folks who are in search of the ultimate Hammond clone will not find it here.. but those looking for a good quality drawbar organ will likely surprised at how good it sounds for the price ($900 seems to be the going street price, although I think that some people have gotten a better price, and some have purchased them used for $500-600).. Those who are looking for a high end "all in one" with superb keyboard action won't like this keyboard, but if you're willing to adjust in order to save some cash, the VR-09 will work for you. The VR-09 is without a doubt tremendous value, VERY flexible, and for someone like me it provides me with a ton of different rig options.. It's quirky but very capable. In fact it's so capable and flexible that at the right price this may be a keyboard that everyone should have in their arsenal even if it's just for rehearsals or small gigs.. There is something very cool about taking an X stand and a 12 pound VR-09 (and that's it) to a rehearsal!!! It's a sense of freedom that you don't get when you use a real hammond or a 2/3 tiered keyboard rig (like I do most of the time)..



Now I will just talk about the competition for a moment.. The natural comparison for the VR-09 would be to an Electro or an SK1, because they are drawbar organs and have other sounds.. IF I do this comparison, I can find a lot of reasons to choose a VR-09 over either of those keyboards.. it's ability to layer two non-organ sounds together and it's virtual analog synth are the first things to come to mind.. oh yes and the price.. the VR-09 is half the price of either of those if you look at typical street prices. On the other hand if you scrutinize the sounds them themselves (organ and AP/EP/Clav) some might prefer the Electro and/or the SK1 over the VR-09 both for better organ sound and waterfall keys. Again, if you want to save cash and you don't require waterfall keys the VR-09 is great value. You can also compare the VR-09 to an XK1c and/or a Numa 2 (which is now arriving on the scene), because all three are drawbar organs (although there is someone on this list that doesn't like that comparison).. the fact is that if I have $1000-1500 budget and I want a drawbar organ, I am going to consider everything that has a drawbar organ engine and drawbars! YES all it takes to be considered a drawbar organ is drawbars and an organ engine!!! The fact that the VR-09 is a whole lot more than a drawbar organ doesn't mean that it shouldn't be compared to the XK1c or the Numa 2. The extra features are simply a plus for the VR-09!!



The VR-09 compares favourably to the Electro and the SK series.. I prefer the organ sounds on either the SK1 or the Electro, however, the VR-09 has a comprehensive library of extra sounds, it has the ability to layer two non-organ sounds, and a built in VA synth and that beats both the Electro and the SK series, in my opinion. Choosing between an Electro, SK1 and a VR-09 is a matter of personal taste (organ sound/playability) vs your requirements for splits/layers and how comprehensive a library you require.



Comparing the VR-09 (as simply a drawbar organ) to the new HS XK1c and the Studiologic Numa 2 is interesting.. right now the VR-09 street price sits at around $900 I think the Numa 2 is around $1295 and the XK1c is around $1495. Both the Numa and the XK1c are better sounding organs and they will play better than the VR-09 (from an organ perspective because of their waterfall keys) but it's hard to deny the appeal of something that costs less and does more.. I would be hard pressed to justify paying $500 more for an XK1c when the VR-09 sounds and plays 85-90% as good (pick a percentage this is how I would assess them). I worry about the reliability of the Numa 2, and the XK1c just seems hugely expensive for what it does. The fact is that the HS leslie sim isn't great and most people are going to pair an XK1c with a Ventilator and if you add a Ventilator to a VR-09 the difference between an XK1c and a VR-09 sound narrows dramatically, and you've got almost comparable organ (sound) but the VR-09 can do so much more ! This comparison/decision boils down to how much more you value a marginally better sounding organ with waterfall keys as compared to the much less expensive VR-09 with so much more capabilities! IF you're just looking for a drawbar organ with a waterfall keyboard the Numa 2 or the XK1c might be perfect. However, if you're like me, you might have trouble justifying the extra expense for marginally better organ and no other non-organ sounds. IF I didn't have my Mojo, I might spend more for the XK1c/Numa 2 (because I really am a fusspot about having a great sounding/feeling organ) but the VR-09 is still very playable and it sounds good.



VR-09 is outstanding value.. good sounding drawbar organ, with good cross section of other sounds and a VA synth all in one 12 pound package..! I honestly think everyone should have one! At the same time, if it's going to be your only board, you may have requirements that it might not satisfy. IF you're really fussy about your organ sound/feel, the VR-09 may not be quite good enough for you.



Craig



(still no baby but I've said all I can say)..



Sent from my iPad

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