From anotherscott@hotmail.com Sat Oct 26 08:08:19 2013
Subject:Re: Re: Question about Roland VR-09 & Hammond SK1

Yes, Set List Mode and the ability to stream your own samples off SSD are, I think, the two most distinguishing features of a Kronos. And its CX3 organ really isn't bad at all especially if you're going to use a Vent or Burn. It's probably at least as good as the VR-760 or VR-09.


Which actually brings me back to the OP. If you have a Kronos 61, is *either* a VR-09 or SK1 the best complement? Gene, what exactly is drawing you to a clonewheel as your second board? Is the CX3 disappointing you in its organ action, sound, ergonomics...? Or is it just that your Kronos is occupied doing other things? If it's the latter, another possibility to take the burden off your Kronos is to use it for organ and let your second board fill in elsewhere. Do you need two unweighted boards (perhaps for double manual organ work), or might it make sense to consider a better piano action for your second board? There are lots of ways this could go...


---In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

The best implementation for organizing programs that I've ever used is the Kronos set list function... I have my entire list of songs loaded up in a master setlist and for every gig, I just cut/paste the songs into the right order and I'm done.. This generally takes me a about 1-10 minutes before a gig.. and it's so fast that it's easy to make live changes as necessary. The set list also allows for some space for text so I can store cheats (lyrics/chord patterns, whatever).. Korg's setlist function is a thing of beauty..

Craig

--- In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
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> re: "Would you prefer 10 fixed favourites.. and 3 button pushes to get any other sound, or do you prefer 25 banks with 4 totally different configurations available with one button push.. From my perspective I prefer the latter and the advantage goes to the VR-09. "
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> I thought I'd replied to that, Craig, but I don't see it. Anyway, I agree that this is a personal preference. If you have your repertoire organized in (up to) 100 songs with up to 4 sounds per song, the Roland approach works well, although I would still be concerned about the time it takes to get from one song to another (outside of the first 16). Often I only have 4 beats to get to my settings for another song. If, OTOH, you often pick the sounds you need "on the fly" without having them pre-configured into song sets, having access to 10 sounds at a time OR being able to get to any sound with a few button presses, would offer the greater advantage. So it depends how you work.
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> But actually, the Hammond isn't actually as good there as you give it credit for... where you say, "Would you prefer 10 fixed favourites.. and 3 button pushes to get any other sound" -- the way the Hammond works is that you set it up for 10 fixed favorites or 3 button pushes to get any other sound. If you're in the 3-button mode, you no longer have single button access to any sound. So there's a further trade-off.
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> The best implementation I've seen of that is on some older Korgs with a "10's Hold" feature. You can use their numeric pad for direct 3-digit recall of any patch, but you also can switch it so that those ten buttons call up sounds with single presses, AND you can easily switch to a different bank of 10 for single-press access to a different set of ten sounds. In a way, a combination of the Roland and Hammond approaches.
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> ---In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
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> Also, Gene, you may not have to bring a mixer, just the right cable. You should be able to go right out of the Hammond into the EXT INPUT jack of the VR-09, and be able to hear both through headphones plugged directly into the VR. Looks like you'd need a L/R 1/4" to a stereo mini. (The 1/4" side could be RCAs with adapters.)
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> ---In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
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> Neither the VR-09 nor SK1 have aftertouch. That was a nice bonus on your VR-760, though you would still have it on your Kronos. The only lightweight "clonewheel" that also functions as a MIDI controller with aftertouch would be the Nord Stage 2-73. You might also look for an older Nord Stage/EX. And if you want "real" drawbar instead of buttons, you can add the Ocean Beach DB1.
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> ---In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
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> Hi all. I'm the OP and again thank you for the in depth analysis. I'm digesting everything said and my next step is to go t my favorite music store and spend a couple hours with these two side by side. They will likely let me put them side by side literally and I'll bring a small mixer with my headphones and literally play them both.
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> I've considered the joystick and/or jack of it. I didn't realize that the SK1 has downloadable sounds and they didn't sound bad on the you tube demos I've heard.
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> One subject I didn't think about is the after touch. I have to look and see which of the two has after touch.
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> Thank you again. I will let everyone know what I choose when I make the decision
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> Gene
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> Sent from my iPhone
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> On Oct 24, 2013, at 2:45 PM, wrote:
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> I would say that it's a matter of what you're controlling. If you're controlling a Kronos that has its own joystick, then pitch/mod controls on your other keyboard are less of an issue than if you are controlling, say, a Roland Integra, or a laptop running VSTs.
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> But presumably the OP is well aware of the fact that the VR has those controls and the SK and Nord do not, and if those are what he is considering, I guess for his own use, he doesn't consider those controls essential. And that's what it comes down to, each person determining what they need. At least the functional difference between the presence or lack of those controls is obvious, and you either care or you don't. The difference in MIDI functionality is not so easy to discern without really spending some research time. So hopefully this thread has helped him.
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> Personally, I would rather have aftertouch than pitch/mod wheels! Unfortunately, it's become a rare option. But iI was recently working with a setup where I used a pedal for pitch bend and used aftertouch for modulation, and that worked nicely for me, because I can rarely spare a hand for pitch/mod wheels anyway.
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> It also depends on one's playing style and reperto ire. If you're mostly playing piano, EP, organ, and other non-synth sounds, you might not care much about a pitch or mod control in the first place. Certainly Nord seems to have sold a ton of keyboards without them. So I don't think you should assume that every player thinks they are as important as you do. I've certainly done plenty of gigs where I never touched a pitch or mod control!
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> ---In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
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