From joedockrill@yahoo.ca Sat Feb 09 08:14:33 2013
Subject:Re: OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots

IMHO most of the compromise from the 860 comes from the ss amp and lack of  deep bass.
A tube organ and/or tube preamp changes it for the better, I have a 15" sub I may put in a box to cure the LF missing.
My 51 conversion is on hold for health reasons but i am sure it will greatly improve the tone of my M3 when done.
Louvers make a difference in a studio or living room, big holes would brighten tone and add wind noise.
I run ugly side out usually anyways.

________________________________
From: Jack Overfull iMapc
To: "CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:50:34 AM
Subject: Re: [CWSG] OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots


 
Actually there is someone that builds cabinets that looks much like a
closed leslie while they're pretty standard pas inside. Seen Joey gig
with that (using a keyb, internal simulation), spent months wondering
why that Leslie sounded that much like an emulation. ;)

Sent from iPhone

Il giorno 09/feb/2013, alle ore 14.41, j a hammond321@yahoo.com> ha
scritto:

> Keep the classic cabinet art form alive by buying Ventilators and
> using VB3 sims? Just kidding...
>
> ________________________________
> From: Goff goffmac747@aol.com>
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots
>
> Do you mean 99% of the players or the listeners? If its the
> listener, I've always had a problem with that mode of thinking. An
> 860 is already a departure from the classic Leslie. The rotor is
> slanted only to compress the cabinet size so the doppler on that is
> unusual vs. a normal top rotor sitting level with the shelf. And
> there is minimal to none cabinet tone from that small compact
> cabinet which has tolex on it anyway, like putting tolex on the
> spruce top of your Martin 000-18. It seems to me that when they made
> these pro series leslies it was all about volume and anvil case-
> itude and classic leslie tones got left on the designer floor..I
> have not seen a pro series in a pro concert with the exception of
> maybe greenspoon in the TDN days and lately afik he's back to
> classic cabinets. I'm, sure there are many older bands and clips of
> them using these pro series style with the "let's make the sides
> look like a fender grill cloth treatment" look..but boss
> how about the louvers??... ahh just cut a large hole, puffs on his
> cigar....but this is beside the point..its all to taste but as with
> anything there is a standard and the departure from that
> standard...i used to salivate after a 900 series back in the day and
> before I built my road 142 I wanted an 860 for gigs as well..but
> learning to use a classic cabinet is an art form we need to keep
> alive. ironic that what Laurens hated became his nemesis. and then
> it has become classic cab vs. whatubrung which ends up being a
> stylized approach..
>
> Even tho Japan is notorious for making things cheaper, at least it
> has due respect for the classic ways of doing things, they are still
> taking pains to retain that sentiment:
>
> http://www.production-room.com/gfx/products/large/2103.gif
> http://www.musik-meisinger.de/1/images/Leslie%202103%20mk2(back).jpg
>
> g/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Dockrill joedockrill@yahoo.ca>
> To: CloneWheel CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, Feb 9, 2013 9:27 am
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots
>
> probably true but 99.9% wouldn't know the difference, I cut the top
> back out of my 860 and run open backed on my other 2.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Goff goffmac747@aol.com>
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 7:02:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots
>
> If that suits your taste, why not. But because the rear is usually
> mic'd doesn't mean the original louvers won't produce a different
> sound. Not all recordings are the mics stuffed into the rotor
> cavities. There are distance mic'd tracks to get the sound of the
> entire Leslie working its magic. All the pro concerts I've worked on
> mic the rear but face the louvers to the player. And the riders are
> always for the classic 122 or 147, never a solid state model. You
> could try mic'ing the louvers and do an A/B between the rear and the
> louvers. Perhaps an ear can't detect a difference but a mic can.
> Then let someone else with different ears listen to the comparison
> along with you. Real louvers have a subdued tone compared to no
> louvers out the back. Then there is still the issue that the sound
> of both the louvers and the rear are mixing together. You'll notice
> the rear covers are louvered only on the bottom but a solid piece up
> top with a length of sound
> absorbent material on the inside of the top rear cover. I've heard
> of some covering the louvers and allowing the sound only out the
> rear. I would imagine that if taking the extra time to route out
> louvers were considered a waste, the factory would've given up on
> doing them. There are those that can tell there's a difference and
> know how to use the louvers to get a tone. In fact some go to an
> extreme and knock on the louvers checking for a certain resonance in
> choosing a cabinet. The sound of the cabinet also makes for tone so
> using the whole system while playing is extremely useful rather than
> blasting on 10 and just listening to rotors. I would say that the
> evolution of Leslie for rock stage use back in the days when PA's
> were a stack of A7's was all about how loud the Leslie could get on
> stage but that's all changed now and subtlety is now possible with
> superior mains and monitor systems.
> A good example of expert subtle use is the Hammond track on Believe
> by Brooks and Dunn.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9-FQMxO_-Q
>
> G/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: j a hammond321@yahoo.com>
> To: clonewheel clonewheel@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, Feb 9, 2013 6:10 am
> Subject: [CWSG] OT: Leslie louvers vs. slots
>
> Going back a bit to an earlier thread there was some discussion
> about the sound emanating through louvered vents on a Leslie cabinet
> (a 122 for example) vs. rectangular slots (a 760 or Frankenleslie
> for example). I thought about that a bit and realized that almost
> every Leslie I've ever played was turned around backwards with the
> rear top panel and lower louver panel removed so it would be louder
> and could be mic'd if needed.
>
> I never noticed any difference in sound between that configuration
> and listening to one in its factory state.
>
> I don't think it really makes much difference one way or the other,
> and probably wouldn't be worth the extra trouble trying to get the
> louvers exactly right.
>
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