From ccmacdon@rogers.com Fri Apr 05 04:54:49 2013
Subject:Re: New Roland vr-09 video

Mik/Dennis,
 
I really liked the SK organ.. it's very tweakable, and I purchased one at the end of 2011 and unfortunately I had to return it due to my unit having some hardware problems.  However, I returned it, rather than exchanging it, primarily because I was not satisfied with the Extra Voices.  The EV's were rather medeocre (my opinion of course), the split/layer was limited (one layer or split HAD to be organ), and the extra voices were simply not comprehensive enough for my application (for example no warm strings?).  I also checked out the downloadable library and at that time (about 14 months ago) it did not fill the gaps.   If the SK1 had a basic "General MIDI" soundset I probably would still have an SK, because I really liked the SK organ!
 
I have a VR-09 on order, I've listened to all the on-line demos, and I had an instore demo, and I was able to play it for a few moments about 2 weeks ago, and I'm optimistic that I can get a useable organ out of it, although I'm a little skeptical that I'm going to be able to dial in my perfect Hammond sound.  While the VR-09 has nice GUI iPad editor, it's no where near as editable as the SK series.. The VR-09 iPad app (and I have it) is merely a "B3" style interface, and while it allows you to tweak many common parameters (such as leslie up/down time fast/slow speed, and key click etc).. it doesn't allow you to tweak individual tonewheels like the SK1 does now. So the SK series organ has much deeper editing abilities.
 
That said, when it comes to Extra Voices, the SK series doesn't come close to the VR-09.  The VR-09 has Rolands complete GM2 soundset (which in itself is quite good), and it has the GX piano samples (rolands best sampled piano, only the Supernatural pianos are better), and it has a complete Jupiter style virtual analog synth.  The VR-09 does NOT have the limitation of the SK where in split/layer mode one part must be organ. So the VR-09 is capable of layered EP/Strings, or standup bass on the lower part and acoustic piano on the upper part etc.. (SK cannot do this).
 
I'm hearing a lot of noise about the build quality of the VR-09, suggesting that the keyboard feel is awful. However, I played it for 5-10 minutes or so and didn't notice the keyboard being that bad, and I think it's a feel that I can quickly get used to.  When it comes to reliability, the VR-09 seems to be a much "lighter" build quality than the SK series, but I fully expect it won't have as many early life problems as the SK series did.. although the VR-09 problems may start showing up down the road if/when these lighter quality components start to wear out.
 
At a very high level, the way I view the two clones is.... the SK1 is a great organ that is very playable (with nice waterfall keys) and deeply tweakable, with a few good extra sounds (EP/Clav) but otherwise a rather limited/medeocre Extra Voices. On the other hand the VR-09 is an OK organ, with a limited but typical amount of tweakability, that has superb extra sounds and voices, which are far more tweakable, and it has more flexibility in the area of splits/layers.  While I have said that the SK organ is more "playable" in a live environment, that is primarily due to it's waterfall keys, the VR-09 itself is actually more playable overall in a live environment due to it's design. First of all the VR-09 has pitchbend and modulation (via the joystick) and it also has D-Beam which can be assigned to any number options (including pitch/organ brake), and it has extremely easy access to live effects including a ring modulator. Keyboard action aside, I
would have to say that the VR-09 is overall the better "all-in-one" keyboard for live performances.
 
The VR-09 is half the price of the SK1, so it's very tempting.. even for us guys who are really fussy about our clones.  I am definately expecting that as a hammond clone, the VR-09 will be a comproimise, but I'm really looking forward to all it has to offer as a 12 pound all-in-one.
 
Craig  


________________________________
From: mik.collins1
To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 11:01:18 PM
Subject: [CWSG] Re: New Roland vr-09 video


 

Thanks for the thoughts! I've played the SK-1 and I loved it. Not sure why I'm so tempted to cheap out on this. Ah, I'll wait and if the Roland beats it on merit I'll get it.

--- In mailto:CloneWheel%40yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" wrote:
>
> Yea, I'd ditto that. I could never have imagined I'd be this satisfied with a keyboard. The organ is just killer on this thing. However I haven't heard much of this roland except for clips like you posted (yea, why can't they spend the time to make a clip with decent audio??). You know what though, the other day I used a stock preset for organ on the SK that came with it from factory, because I didn't have the vent (polka gig where I just use some flutes and extra voices when my lip gets tired on trumpet) and I couldn't believe how thin it sounded. Yet listen to that one clip Jim Alfredson posted on his SK2 with the onboard leslie, and wow. SO I really think the secret to all these clones is spending the time tweaking, and I can't emphasize that enough. The Korg was horrible when I got it, and after tweaking for over 2 years, I got that thing sounding pretty good. There's a ton to tweak on the SK, so I thought it would take longer, but actually you can
go right where you need to rather than try overlapping EQ curves, etc. so it's taken a lot less time to get it where I want (not that I'm anywhere near done!). So if that roland is really tweakable, the engine doesn't sound that horrible as a base sound to work with. I'm thinking it might end up being a ton better than what we're hearing on these vids. But what are the tweaks available? Is there an owners manual anywhere online for it? 7 or 800 is a lot of money in this economy so I understand the reluctance to spend.
>
> --- In mailto:CloneWheel%40yahoogroups.com, Bob Green wrote:
> >
> > You can't imagine how much you will like the SK until you have one. The ease of control and user friendliness of it is great and fun. I did not think I would use the EV's much with my Tyros 2 in my set up but I do enjoy some of them a lot. I never used the bad EV's on my XK1 at all; and I like my SK a whole lot over the XK1 in every way. 
> >  
> > Keep shopping for a deal; I got mine new for $1745 in February with a $100 instant rebate from HS and some price matching. Knowing what I know now I would have paid full price. This VR-09 seems very limited to me and you will probably end up back on the market after a while for an SK.
> >  
> > greenb
>




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