From frederick.somerville@gmail.com Wed Feb 01 16:22:59 2012
Subject:Re: Nord C2D

So based on those two recordings you can judge the C2d and the Mojo?

The mojo recording is as far as I can understand on of their official promos. Recorded in a well controlled environment hopefully using a production model set up to sound its best. Also there is no part where you hear the organ alone. With the human ear being so easily distracted by masking sounds I would say the comparison is not really fair.
There is a couple of vids with a Hammichord and an Hammond played through the same leslie. And by the sound of that vid (with all the limitstions) the Hammichord is really close.

When it comes to texts I was taught to be critical of the source. How do you know in any video that what you hear is what you see - unless you where there at the time. And audio could still be swapped afterwards.

The c2d recording was done under stressed conditions using a direct out feed and seriously doubt if much time was spent optimising the sound. One obvious misstake was to have the pedals routed to the lower manual (I think the person who did the recordingn is on this list and might recall if pedals where coupled to lowers).
This means we did not get to hear the adjusted TG modelling in the bass octave 838 000 000.

Ther is on test that could be done that would hold from the sound perspective.
Set up a clone and a hammond exactly the same. Play them exactly the same.
Then reverse the phase of one 180 degres and add them. If the result is absolutely zero they are identical.

Then there are the playability factors such as latencys in the system and how well the touch responsiveness is mimiced in the clone. Even if a clone or vst nails the sound but it does not react correctly to percussive then you still would miss something - if you are used to what a Tonewheeler deliveres.

Glad to hear that you play Hammonds Dave. What made you go back to hauling the original organ ?( or do you have a stationary gig)

Btw did it ever occur to that some persons on this list, like the person who did the direct recording at Namm or others might actually know what a C2d sounds like?
One thing I do know is which clones I have not tested my self in a controlled environment with a good sounding B3 as a ref. I know for certain I have NOT tried the
Hammichord
Mojo
KeyB in any shape or form
Diversi/keyb
Korg C3 (new model) only in a musik store a long time ago. My opinon is outdated
Roland Vk models
Numa
Etc....

Regards Frederick Somerville

Sent from my iPhone

2 feb 2012 kl. 00:28 skrev David Jacques :

> Again, this is all subjective... But the Mojo with its latest VB3 engine just hits it....
>
> Here is an example of the Mojo with its internal Leslie sim (among the many on YouTube)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBWwRIAbv0Q
>
> Here is the C2D Audio direct out recording:
> http://soundcloud.com/baldrust/c2d-namm-2012-demo
>
> Regarding what I am playing now, I just play B3's... no clones. Gigged with a H/S XK3c pro system for years. But not for the last year.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Frederick Somerville
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] Nord C2D
>
> Yes I do believe I would hear all of what you mention in all of them. They
> are clones aren't they?
> I have hear cross talk in all of them - various qualities. I know which
> models crosstalk i prefer.
> There are variations in the Leslie simulators of the ones I mentioned.
> Unfortonately I do not own a ventilator yet.
> But I just extende my leslie collection (145 142 110 120) with an 825 so a
> vent has to wait.
>
> Now I am curious of what you hear that differs - perhaps described in a
> somewhat more detalied way than just mentioning the areas where there might
> be a difference.
>
> I agree with you that there are differences - I have hear some I think I
> could name a few right out of my head.
>
> But even more interesting is what difference I would expect to hear between
> the Mojo and the C2d.
>
> Which organ do you use btw?
>
> 2012/2/1
>
> > Let me see. Let's start with:
> >
> > Percussion
> > Overdrive
> > Leslie Sim
> > Key Click
> > Organ Tone (especially the high registers)
> > Crosstalk
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frederick Somerville
> > Sender: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:33:57
> > To:
> > Reply-To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Nord C2D
> >
> > Can you describe the difference I will hear. What should I listen for?
> >
> > Witch Electro by the way should I use for comparison?
> > The Electro 3 has the same organ engine as the C2 if I am not totally
> > misinformed.
> >
> > Now I own an Nord C1 and a Nord C2 and I have the VB3 1.4.
> > These I am very familiar with I spent countless hours practicing and
> > gigging on them.
> > I have done A/B tests with C1/C2 Vb3 1.4 against a B3 in a Leslie 147.
> > So given those parameters I would be very interested in hearing your
> > opinion of how the C2d differs from the Mojo?
> > Now I have some slight recollection of you stating that you have not yet
> > heard the C2d live. But please do enlighten me on what I would hear if I
> > compared the Mojo (of which I only know from some quite good recordings by
> > the makers) to the C2d.
> >
> > 2012/2/1
> >
> > > No, I did not hear it live at NAMM, but according to clavia it did not
> > > have the complete sound engine installed. And I am not saying that it
> > > sounded bad, just not state of the art. Listen to the Mojo, then to the
> > > Electro or C2D. Or a ventilator. You will hear a difference.
> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Frederick Somerville
> > > Sender: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:13:53
> > > To:
> > > Reply-To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Nord C2D
> > >
> > > From the official postings from Clavia I can not see any excuses.
> > > If you are reffering to the earlier post it is not an official statement
> > > from Clavia as far as I can see.
> > > The only official things from Clavia as far as I have seen is on their
> > > webpages and what was said at Namm.
> > >
> > > And you did not answer my question.
> > > Have you personally heard the C2d live at Namm?
> > >
> > > If you judge the C2d by the sound of the vids ........
> > >
> > > 2012/2/1
> > >
> > > > I have heard the various videos from NAMM and the direct out recording
> > > > posted on the Keyboard Forum. It was not that impressive.
> > > >
> > > > My criticism certainly has nothing to do with supporting and upgrading
> > > old
> > > > products. I commend Clavia for doing that. I just have issues with
> > > > companies hyping a new product and not delivering at NAMM... Then
> > making
> > > > excuses.
> > > >
> > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Frederick Somerville
> > > > Sender: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 22:59:05
> > > > To:
> > > > Reply-To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Nord C2D
> > > >
> > > > David - have you heard or played the C2d?
> > > >
> > > > 2012/2/1 David Jacques
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > > I just find it extremely boring when a company presents a NEW HYPED
> > > > > product at NAMM... and when it does not receive overall enthusiastic
> > > > > response, the company
> > > > > starts making excuses like "well, it does not yet have the NEW Leslie
> > > > > simulator"... or "of course it does not yet include the NEW key
> > > click"...
> > > > > Give me a break! They would have been better off just not turning it
> > > > > on....
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: B Carr
> > > > > To: clonewheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 9:00 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [CWSG] Nord C2D
> > > > >
> > > > > Ditto.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wonder how many people choose not to join in discussion for fear that
> > > > > their comments will be ripped to shreds by someone's un-called for
> > > > pompous
> > > > > response? How many more people might join in the discussion? The
> > > guy's
> > > > > contributing information that many, if not all of us are interested
> > in.
> > > > > Can't we at least hear it before we start with the snide comments?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nothing personal, HammondDave, but I doubt this is a product you'd
> > ever
> > > > be
> > > > > interested in anyway. So why spoil everyone else's fun? Just
> > because
> > > > you
> > > > > CAN?
> > > > >
> > > > > Geez!
> > > > >
> > > > > To find out the real truth about Phil Cannella go to
> > > > > www.truthaboutcannella.net
> > > > >
> > > > > > To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > From: bobbysimons@optonline.net
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:49:57 -0500
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Nord C2D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:46 AM, hammonddave2004@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > YAWN…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why don't you take a little nappy-poo? Some of us find it
> > > interesting.
> > > > > > We'll wake you if we need another similarly useful opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bobby Simons
> > > > > > bobbysimons@optonline.net
> > > > > > AIM: patentdraw