From list@hartdyke.com Thu Nov 10 13:21:36 2011
Subject:Re: VB3 on a GIG .!!!
A few points:
Win 7 64-bit runs 32-bit BSTs just fine, as long as your VST host runs OK -
most do. The main issue is if you want to run a 64-bit VST - then you must
have a VST host that can run it.
A standard battery on the laptop should be fine, as it's only used to iron
out a funky supply, or to allow enough time to shut down properly in the
event of an outage - even a standard batter will give you over an hour for
the most powerful laptops.
Disable the wired networking in Device manager as well. If you want to check
there aren't any other misbehaving drivers, use DPC Latency Checker
(http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml). It won't tell you which
driver is bad, but will show you if something is amiss.
If you're using an external soundcard, the I would use the manufacturers
drivers *not* ASIO4ALL. That's just a method for getting (almost) acceptable
performance from substandard built-in audio hardware. Unless your soundcard
is really crappy, the supplied drivers should be best.
Crashes are usually (these days) driver related, so check for updates from
the manufacturers web site. I've never had a crash with Cantabile and the
Cakewalk UA25-EX interface, though I can't say I've stressed it all that
much ;-)
Toby
From: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of mark k
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:57 PM
To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CWSG] Re: VB3 on a GIG .!!!
Mike
Your thread generated some interesting insights into the option of using
VSTi's like VB3 in a live environment, particularly as I have been working
my way down this path for the past 8 weeks.
The following summarizes my findings to date.
Hardware Requirements
Current generation laptop multi core processor, min 4 gig Ram, at least 2,
and preferably more, USB 2.0 ports, long life battery running Win7 32 bit
(as not all VST's have been upgraded to 64 bit yet). Start with clean
install and laptop dedicated to use as DAW with no other software loaded or
enabled for auto start.
Wireless, Bluetooth etc turned off and Windows update set to manual. (You
could use an Apple but I have been a PC guy since Dos 3.3 and the days of
manual editing of the boot sector in hexadecimal to remove the Stoned Virus
and therefore reluctant to change my ways or throw out the small amount of
accumulated knowledge I have garnered over the intervening years).
Run the laptop on AC power with external midi controller and an external
soundcard (external soundcard optional but recommended) both USB powered
from the laptop. The laptop battery will cut in and provide adequate time to
do a normal shut down if AC power unexpectedly stops (you will not have
amplification anyway in that event). Test before going live to see how long
the laptop lasts on battery power only running the attached USB devices so
you know how long you have to do a normal shutdown. Rebooting a laptop
configured as above should take less than 30 seconds.
Also required will be a ground loop isolator between internal or external
sound card output and mixer/amp input.
Software Requirements
This is where things get more complicated and comments here
are separated into 2 parts.
Part 1 - VST host.
My quest has been to find an easy to understand VST host only that was easy
for a newby to set up. Virtually all the commercial DAW's do far more than
act as VST host and very few include a Chapter Headed "using this software
as a VST host only". Before getting to this point the initial set up of
each package requires the sound drivers be set up. Installation of the free
ASIO4ALL2 driver is mandatory for most DAW's.
I have installed about 10 different freeware/shareware and trial versions of
DAWs recommended for VST hosting and found that the way the DAW sets up the
audio and midi input/output is critical to getting beyond first base.
Reaper 4.0 (trial), Ableton Live Lite (free with the midi controller I
purchased) and Cantabile (free version) are the only packages I tried that
can be configured and set up with ease by a newby without
crashing the PC. However Cantabile is temperamental and I still get a
complete OS crash if I try to edit the sound settings.
There is plenty of comment on forums about the issues the MS GM synth driver
causes and difficulties it can cause with DAW's. I emailed Cantabile logging
the issue 2 weeks ago and have not had a reply. Shame because Cantabile
seems to best fit my requirements of being designed to be primarily a VST
host optimized for live performance. All other freeware/shareware packages
appear to be deficient in the audio and midi setup functionality and not
worth my time trying to resolve the issues. For example, Live Professor
(beta) causes a system crash the instant ASIO4ALL is selected as the ASIO
driver, again emailed the issue to the developer and no response.
Software Part 2 - VSTi's
There are many VST's out there which are free, available for purchase or
included with DAW's. I purchased VB3 and it installed and worked perfectly
first time. It includes the ability to map virtually all
controls to the midi controller so there is no need to use the laptop
keyboard or mouse whilst playing. I understand NI B4 is equally as good from
an install and controller mapping perspective. With VSTi's it goes down
hill from there. In addition to VB3 my focus is on Rhodes, Wurly, Clav and
synth VSTi's and there is a wide range available but few offer mappable
variables the way VB3 does. I have yet to fully investigate the extend to
which Reaper, Ableton Live and Cantabile overcome this limitation. I know
that Reaper for example will ignore the VST's GUI and show the generic
controls which may be mappable to the controller. (And remain mapped for
that VST when toggling between different VST's during a live set)
My take is that the majority of VST's are designed for studio use in a DAW
and the built-in mappable control functionality required for live
performance is an afterthought or not addressed.
The advantage of VST's is that they are
easily configurable on screen rather than having the scroll through menus
etc to change settings on a dedicated board such as an NE3 and most provide
the facility to save preferred VSTi settings as the default or multiple
defaults so it is easy recall the required setting.
There doesn't appear to be any reason why using one VSTi such as VB3 with
suitable and correctly configured hardware and a simple VST host should be
any more prone to failure in a live situation than a dedicated board. B4 can
be run as a stand alone without the need for a VST host programme and hence
even simpler to configure.
However if I had an NE3 with vent I doubt I would be going down this path
now. As I don't and already have a suitable laptop (the most expensive
single item in this type of setup) if I can make the other required VSTi's
tweakable for live performance then I have achieved similar functionality
for a fraction of the price.
Mark
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Stein
>
> To: "CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com "
>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 7:35 AM
> Subject: [CWSG] Re: VB3 on a GIG .!!!
>
> If you read my post on Monday I recently used VB3 with my Mac at a gig
>
this past Saturday night. I was good for about 30 seconds into the
> performance, but then there was a voltage problem because too many plugs
> were inserted into to two bars that were linked together because there was
> only one available power outlet in the small bar we were playing. The Mac
> was not a problem because it was running off it's internal battery, the
> Edirol controller became the problem because it turned on, then off and on
> again messing up the midi messages to the Mac and VB3. Needless to say the
> program freezed and I scrambled to hook up my Roland RS5 to play out the
> rest of the set. One member of the group reminded me that if i had
> connected my midi-controller to the Mac via the USB port I would have
> avoided this fiasco. Nonetheless I have used VB3 for recording sessions,
> rehearsals and yes even live a few times, and I have to say that is has
> been
quite stable and reliable.
> The next time I use it I will connect the keyboard controller to the Mac
> as well. I have both an older Mac and older PC laptop and I have found the
> Mac to be more stable and have a superior sound card than came installed
in
> my PC. I hope you find this helpful.
>
> David
> The Soul Shakers
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