From ccmacdon@rogers.com Tue Feb 01 06:40:30 2011
Subject:Can we call it flanging?
Dave,
First, I want to say that I don't see this sound as harmonic beating, I hear a distinct flanging effect... more of a rhythmic EQ shift over a period of time which is likely the result of the signal shifting out of phase and then returning to normal, and continuing to cycle in this manner.
Hammond Chorus (including the digital kind our clones create), like a leslie sim, is just another effect that acts on pitch in a regular/rhythmic manner, so I would fully expect that when Chorus is combined with a Leslie on Tremelo, you can find certain frequencies (using various tone/note combinations) that will emphasize or create a phasing or flanging effect, especially in this world of DIGITAL clones and DIGITAL leslie sims.
My guess is that you don't hear this effect on a real Hammond/Leslie because neither the vibrato scanner or the leslie motors spins with the kind of precision that our digital clones and digital leslie sims have. I would fully expect that the RPM of leslie motors and Hammond motors vary enough that these odd phasing/flanging effects can't establish themselves with the kind of regularity that we hear in this clip of your Ventilator and XK3C. We basically don't hear these effects because the variation in real physical motor speeds cause them to be more random and they simply add to the wonderful rich tone that we hear.
Maybe the solution is to add more randomness to these chorus and leslie effects in our clones to avoid these secondary and unwanted effects and maybe you can minimize this affect by adjusting the vibrato/chorus speed on your XK3c (I think you can do that).
David you are right, the Ventilator is still a kickass leslie sim.. and it's by far the best leslie sim that has ever been mass produced.. is it perfect..? Perhaps not, but it's the closest thing to perfection that exists today!!
That said, if I ever get stuck playing that chord, with that drawbar setting, for the length of time necessary to notice that FLANGING effect, I hope lightning strikes me ;-)
Regards,
Craig MacDonald
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Re: [Hammond_xk-3] Ventilator/XK3c Harmonic Beating - Hypothesis???
Posted by: "David Jacques" djacques@csulb.edu hammonddave2004
Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:39 pm (PST)
So, I just posted a video on YouTube with my friend Austin's XK3 into
a real leslie. The video is located here:
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=iKwRIr3T6Ew
You can hear that there is no phase shifting when playing the XK3 into
a real leslie. So maybe the XK3 is a modeled instrument after all...
We also played his XK3 through a Vent and the same issue arose as when
I played my XK3c through it. That video is located here:
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=5-FNBHTbWPA
So why is there an issue with Phase Shifting/Harmonic Beating, or
whatever it may be when playing through a Vent?
A couple of list members surmised that when such a complex signal such
as the XK3 with chorus hits the Vent's DSP processing, it may just be
a little too much for it to handle and therefore produces this
abnormality. I am interested in what Guido has to say about this, and
what his hypothesis may be.
I am also interested if any Nord players can reproduce this with their
Vents.
All this being said...
The Ventilator is still a kick-ass Leslie simulator. The overdrive on
it is fantastic and speeds and separation are top notch. I am still
going to work on my chorus vibrato to see if there is a sweet spot
where the Vent does not emphasize the phase shifting as much.
Plus, how many people really play sustained Am7 chords for so long?
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