From fingerz@woh.rr.com Wed Dec 28 20:42:57 2011
Subject:RE: My Hammond SK1 saga is over!

Here's my view from the hill.

The board I've been hot on is the Yamaha Motif XF8.I've been trying to talk
myself out of it but keep coming back to it. Like you I've tried it out at
stores through crappy little studio monitors(most of the time in mono) and
have not been impressed enough to say I need to lay out $3500. Maybe I would
change my mind with better amplification.Not sure. My biggest reason for
looking at new boards is enable myself to walk in with two boards that
handle everything. I prefer to have a full 88-note on the bottom and
something with synth/organ action on top depending on the gig. Currently I
use an 88 note controller on the bottom, 76 note on top, a small Korg R3 for
some extra synth goodies, and an 8-space rack with; a furman power module,
mixer, piano module, Alesis QSR, Korg WSSR, Yammie Motif classic, and Korg
Triton rack. This rack as you can imagine weighs about a ton. I'm just under
40 and have a bad back that doesn't always cooperate.LOL.I love playing but
when it comes to moving gear I'd rather stay home.I went shopping today at
Guitar Center and Sam Ash.I walked into Guitar Center and they had the
Roladn/Edirol PCR800 controller on closeout for about $200.Of course I
bought one and will pair it up with VB3 soon.And while I was there I again
tried out the XF8 which was pumped through crappy monitors and still
couldn't convince myself I needed it.I continued to look around and noticed
they had a Kronos 61.After reading your email earlier I was beside myself to
try it out and guess what? Again P.O.S. monitors.They really made it sound
like crap.I messed with it for a while and walked away thinking what could
Craig have been thinking when he bought that thing??? And then I read your
email about the crappy monitoring.Maybe I won't sell them short next time
and ask for some better amplification. Sorry for the long post but I assume
I'm not the only one wearing these shoes.I appreciate all of the responses
and most notably Craig's except for the fact that now I'll have to make yet
another trip south to try them out with better amplification.Thanks again
Craig!!!

Brian In Ohio



From: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of ccmacdon
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 1:55 PM
To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CWSG] My Hammond SK1 saga is over!





Brian, I hear you buddy.. I've had a lot of trouble trying to find the right
all-in-one keyboard, and it's a struggle deciding what is best..

I decided on the 61 note Kronos because it gives me the flexibility of using
it by itself for small gigs when I don't have a lot of room, or I can simply
use a two tier stand and add an 88 note weighted controller for pianos and a
second keyboard when I have room.

I also want to provide a quick update regarding the sound.. I said in my
previous note that in listening to the factory patches I thought they were
kind of rinky-dinky and cheesy... well I have to correct that statement.. I
just plugged the Kronos into my QSC K10's and holy crap this thing sounds
great.

All of a sudden the bottom is right there and it was booming like crazy on
the organ patch I've been working on, so I had to go back and re-EQ my organ
patch to reduce/remove the extra bass I added. When I listened to the Kronos
at the music store a few months ago, I was listening through some small
studio monitors, and when I first got my Kronos home yesterday I was also
listening through my studio monitors (and using a brand new audio
interface).. and neither of these monitors were doing justice to the bottom
end of this Kronos..
The organ patches are sounding much better through my QSC K10's and now it's
just a matter of a bit more tweaking and I expect to have a great sounding
organ!

When I was struggling with deciding on a keyboard to get I organized the
various options into four categories(these are Canadian Prices):

1. Under $1000 - laptop/VST/Audio Interface/Controller option - great sound,
but there's lot's that can go wrong, lot's of extra cables, and power chords
and audio interfaces, laptop stands etc. I know that lots of guys are loving
VB3 and it's working very reliably for them in gig situations, but for me is
just seems a bit on the messy side (I'm looking for simple set up/tear
downs). That said I may yet do this!

2. $1000-$1500 - Entry level workstations like the Yamaha MOx8, Korg M50,
Kurzweil PC3 series etc.. great sounds but typically no drawbar organ.
Kurzweil PC3 series is the exception in this price range because it has the
KB3 mode and mixer/fader style drawbars.

3. $1500-$2250 - you can find a lot of "do it all" keyboards designed to
provide bread and butter keyboard sounds, Korg SV1, Hammond SK1, Roland
V-Combo, Various NORD products, and at this price point you typically get
drawbars (or buttons) and good hammond sound, good piano, and good EP's but
for the most part that's it, and beyond that the extra voices are kind of
cheesy and medeocre(unless of course you're into "JUMP" synth sounds). So,
on these keyboards you can get drawbars and good hammond sound but to do so
it seems to me that you have to make a huge sacrifice in the area of extra
voices (when compared to even the entry level workstations).

4. >$2250 - higher end workstations - motif, Nord stage 2, Kronos, Phantom
etc.. While these have a huge sound libraries and tons of functionality,
including the ability to import samples and massage sounds for studio and
live performance, there's only a couple of options that allow drawbar organ
control... the Kronos (CX3 mode + mixer/faders) and the Nord Stage,
primarily.

So on one hand there seems to be a bunch of dedicated hammond clones that
provide drawbars, but generally none or limited extra voices, and on the
other hand there are workstations (high and low end) that provide huge
libraries and functionality but no way to shape or control with the hammond
drawbars. However there are some workstations that are in the middle...
Kurzweil PC3 series on the low $$ end, that has KB3 mode and lot's of extra
high quality voices, and there is the Korg Kronos on the high end , and both
of these have a tonewheel mode (KB3 and CX3), they allow for drawbar control
through the use of their mixer/faders, and they allow easy control of other
typical organ parameters (C/V persussion etc.)

For me I wanted the best of both worlds.. great hammond sound with drawbar
control, and great other sounds, without compromise. I ultimately chose the
Kronos, because I wanted it's superb Pianos, and all the functionality that
these 9 synth engines can provide, and bottom line, I got all of that for
only $500 more than the SK1, AND the KRONOS is heads and shoulders above any
of the other high end workstations at this point.

I hope providing my rationale helps you make your decision, and I don't mean
that you have to pick a Kronos, this was just my way of organizing the
options, and perhaps this will be of benefit to you Brian!!

Craig

--- In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com ,
"Brian Fuller" wrote:
>
> Damn it Craig I didn't need hear all of this!!! I've been trying to figure
> out what new board out I want!!! And you're not making it any easier!!!
I've
> been frothing at the mouth for a Yamaha Motif XF-8 and been kind of
thinking
> about the Kronos as well!!! Damn Damn Damn.I also can't decide if I want
to
> go for a 88'er or a 61'er and use my 88 note controller I already have.A
61
> note Kronos would fit the bill nicely especially when I need to use a
> clonewheel.I liked my CX-3 as well.Decisions, decisions.Craig please keep
me
> up to date on what you like and what you don't.I always value the opinions
> of other players over a magazine review. With all of the "all in one"
boards
> out there it's hard to find one that really suits your individual tastes.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian In Ohio
>
> From: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com ]
On
> Behalf Of ccmacdon
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:08 PM
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CWSG] My Hammond SK1 saga is over!
>
> So my SK1 saga is over.. I returned the SK1 and I just bought a Korg
> Kronos... so now I'll be back using the built in CX3 engine that I used to
> use in my BX3! Fox recommended this and I got a great "boxing-day" deal on
> the Kronos.. (only $500 more than my SK1) and as a overall package it's
> easily 2-3 times the keyboard that the SK1 is, and yet it only cost about
> 20% more, and holy crap the pianos and the EP's are f-ing outstanding!!
>
> Initially I found that the factory organ patches sound pretty "cheesy" but
> it only took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to edit a factory patch
> and get pretty great organ sound out of it. That said the leslie sim isn't
> bad but I'll probably use the Ventilator with it and that will add the
> finishing touch. There are some limitations of course, because it's not a
> dedicated clone, it doesn't have switches for all the various organ
> functions, but you can assign controls like percussion on/off and C/V
on/off
> to the SW1/2 switches. So this is going to be a fine backup gig keyboard
and
> it will be a great keyboard for my studio as well.
>
> While the SK1 seems to be a pretty solid organ, it's ability to play other
> voices is pretty limited from what I can gather.. basically you can layer
> the organ with one other voice, and that's about it.. That may be a good
> thing from a clonewheel perspective, but entry level workstations that are
> half the price can handle multiple splits and layers no problem. So as
much
> as the SK1 seems a step ahead from a clonewheel perspective, I think it's
> way behind from a workstation perspective.
>
> I would have been quite satisfied with the SK1 IF it worked properly out
of
> the box, but since it didn't, I started looking at other options and
> ultimately changed my mind.. So for those of you who are interested.. I
> closed the book on the SK1, and now I'm digging into this Kronos.. and
what
> a beast it is!
>
> Craig
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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