From mrresp1@optonline.net Thu Jul 31 09:55:11 2008
Subject:Re: The Human Ear as a Measuring Device

>alkaline batteries are about 8.4V,<

tell me if i'm missing something here but the "9V" duracells that i use seem
to consistently measure (new) about ~ 9.57V even under load..

m


>
> Bruce Wahler wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've watched this thread with interest. Here is my $0.02USD ...
>>
>> There are certainly cases where the available measurements can't back up
>> differences that musicians clearly hear in their gear. However,
>> musicians have a tendency to carry this beyond the point where
>> differences can clearly be demonstrated.
>
> Hi, thanks for joining in. I must disagree with your initial
> comment. While I am sure what a musician finds pleasurable
> in a particular sound, and the words he/she may try to
> express the feeling can not be directly translated to
> specific measurable features, I am also sure that this is
> more a limitation of language etc. than technology. If the
> musician hears a different that is really there, measurable
> differences will also exist.
>
>> A case in point would be guitar stomp boxes and batteries. Some players
>> (ex: Eric Johnson) claim that their ANALOG stomp boxes "sound better"
>> with old-fashioned 9V batteries. There's a reason for that, one backed
>> up with rational, scientific measurement: Old-school 9V batteries really
>> are 9V when new; alkaline batteries are about 8.4V, and rechargeables
>> are more like 7.5V. Thus, different batteries provide more/less headroom
>> in an analog circuit.
>
> Great contribution, thanks. We sure can use more of this
> integration of technical, musical, experiential based
> thinking.
>
>> Also, battery types have differing discharge
>> profiles -- the voltage in some of them decays with a gentle, linear
>> slope, while others tend to remain at one voltage, and "drop off the
>> cliff" at the end of their life. And finally, different battery
>> chemistries allow more peak current drain than others. So, compared to
>> an old-school battery, some types appear "old" to the circuit right out
>> of the box.
>
> Agreed, but circuits are designed to handle such variations,
> at least within reasonable limits. Voltage and temperature
> drift are expected, bias circuits designed to deal with
> them, so that good equipment should perform exactly as
> specified regardless.
>
>> When used in a DIGITAL stomp box, however, these differences may not
>> even matter. Most digital electronics are designed to work over a wide
>> voltage range, and many of them have internal regulators. But, if a
>> guitarist is used to hearing a difference in some gear, it's easy to
>> transfer that opinion to all gear. The same thing can be true of $50
>> cables vs. $15 cables, hand-wired vs. PC boards, etc. Sometimes it makes
>> a difference, but blindly carrying the "rule" to all situations doesn't
>> make sense.
>
> Thanks again for a bit of sanity. Those who have little
> technical knowledge, rely upon metaphoric terms rather than
> technically correct ones, and rely upon anecdotes rather
> than data collected under controlled conditions.
>
>> Using premium parts falls into the same trap: If I use gold-plated parts
>> for EVERY piece of a design, it may sound better than the same product
>> built with other plating. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that
>> "gold-plated parts sound better." It means that SOME areas of the design
>> benefit from premium parts, and I decided not to take a chance on which
>> ones were necessary.
>>
>> In particular, as already mentioned, the type of power supply used in a
>> digital keyboard like the CX-3 doesn't matter, unless the designers
>> didn't follow good practices. (I suspect that they did.) The choice of a
>> transformer-based supply could be as simple as, "We already have this
>> reliable, low-noise supply from another product that will work fine.
>> Drawbar organs are comparatively low-volume, so let's not re-design
>> where we already have a solution."
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -BW
>
> Thanks again, Dave W.
>
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