From endiendi@tin.it Sun Feb 24 15:28:17 2008
Subject:R: Re: Diversi Organ Vs Hammond

I feel partially responsible for having blamed mp3s for poor quality. I
didn't mean that a Diversi sounds good only if you stand in front of
it, I just meant that you can not compare two instruments that are very
close each other trying to distinguish very subtle timbrical nuances
just from a demo mp3. If an instrument is 97% equal to another
instrument I think you can not judge such extremely slight differences
(that may even be important) through an mp3 listening. Those demos do
the job and give you a general idea of what we may be talking about but
again, seriously, a demo mp3 or any recording can sound in many
different ways even with the same instrument. Otoh we are lucky we have
such possibility so to have a goodgeneral idea
Enrico

----Messaggio
originale----
Da: goffmac747@aol.com
Data: 24-feb-2008 9.26 PM
A:

Ogg: Re: [CWSG] Diversi Organ Vs Hammond

David,
My sentiments exactly as far as sitting behind a Diversi and
trying it
out myself and when. But that's just it. In today's internet
world, the
connection needs to be made as quickly as possible, or the
item has to
be in the stores in every city to make it easier to
convince a
potential buyer. if you take into consideration how the
Hammond became
popular, it's because we heard it on the radio and
through records. I
don't think anyone second guessed what they were
hearing on the radio
which was a transmission over the air and not
even on a direct cable
like the internet is. The Hammond tones on the
many records that
featured one, sold those Hammonds. The songs that
popularized the
Hammond, became popular because of the Hammond. And
record producers
found a way to make the sound inviting for the times.
Today, "radio" is
now the internet and soon to be "TV." It's the same
set of
circumstances that existed for radio, records, and TV as it is
for
MP3's and youtube. If you can come across on the medium, then you
gain
followers. If not, then you have problems. How much different is
a
Joey song played on a Hammond on an mp3, than it would be seeing
Joey
on a Hammond live? I can't see that sluggish transmission would
be to
blame for a bad reference on a Diversi the same way an mp3 of
Joey on a
Hammond over the internet would suffer misalignment. Then I
say get
Joey in a studio and record him playing a Diversi as if he
were making
a "for release" set of songs. But I think that's what was
done already
as per the Diversi demos but maybe not to the "for
release" extent. How
good was the recording on the youtube of Joey on
a Hammond? Yet his
Hammond playing sounded like a Hammond because it
was a Hammond. And a
real tone wheel, not a soft wheel.

I would hate
to think that a Diversi is only good sounding in person.
How would
that be then for making it translate on a recording? It has
always
been that popular recordings were made for the most part to
sound
great on the crappiest radios or stereos. That criteria is still
the
same today. If mp3's are less quality sounding, than records or
tape,
then the onus is on the artist to come across on this new generic
medium. Like being "telegenic," a "face" has to translate being filmed
or videotaped and has to look good on camera. Even if one is stunning
in person, it does not guarantee one will look good through the
medium.. The same goes for a musical instrument. And if first
impressions are everything, then???? If the Diversi only sounds good
live, then it will have to be demoed live to get buyers. It still
leaves the recording sector out of the loop if that's the case. Maybe
that will be Diversi's niche. However odd. But I think what is on the
mp3's is what it is in those keyboards.

Joey is seen as a Hammond
organist. When we hear a Joey song, we want
to hear him wield a
Hammond. Not a Farfisa, a Vox, a Rogers,
Gulbransen, a Yamaha, Conn, a
Lowery. But, it doesn't mean that only a
Hammond will ever be able to
make 'that" sound because they are not
doing so even now the way they
did when they made tone wheels. So the
playing field is leveled. Even
Hammond is competing against it's own
invention, as far as diehard
fans of the tone wheel like us are
concerned. The prize goes to the
company that can get that sound. It's
weird that one sound is what is
most associated with organs. But that's
the nature of the beast. Hence
the last word in the name of this forum
is "wheel."

-----Original
Message-----
From: Wilkie
To:
CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 2:07 am
Subject: RE:
[CWSG] Diversi Organ Vs Hammond

I enjoyed
your post and think you make some great points and you
obviously

know
and understand the Hammond "language," but please allow me with
great

goodwill to point out that to be fair to Diversi I don't believe you
can

really make sound (an unintentional pun) judgments from media
coming
across

even broadband. I experience every kind of misalignment
through a duo
core

processed cable broadband connection.

You may
very well be totally correct in your observations, and I am

skeptical
myself, but I can't wait to find myself sitting at one of
these

critters to make my own assessment. I doubt that I'll see one any time

soon, as I live in a keyboard wasteland on the left coast, but I'll
catch up

to one eventually.

David Wilkie Owen

-----Original
Message-----

From: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of goffmac747@aol.com

Sent:
Sunday, February 24, 2008 12:03 AM

To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [CWSG] Diversi Organ Vs Hammond

Kudos for the review..
it made me visit the Diversi site and sludge
through

those on again
off again videos and clips. An advertisement is a direct

reflection of
the people who put it out. With all the better media
players

on
ordinary websites, it would behoove Diversi to get their webmasters
in

gear.

I think the Diversi is close, but there's something that it
is missing
and

for one, the attack and the way it handles the
upcoming notes.

There is also a difference in the tone that is
"Hammond-like" but not

"Hammond." Some of the harmonics and overtones
are "off." Sometimes they

don't land and cluster right.

Listening
to Joey on youtube play Blues for Bobby C on a B3 and then

comparing
it to his 2008 NAMM New Song #2 on Diversi's site, taking for

granted
this is really Joey playing on the mp3 clip, I sense there is a

missing response in how the Diversi reacts to the notes played and the
way

one would expect the next notes to sound.. It made Joey play
different
on

the Diversi than on the B3 in the u2b clip almost as if
he were second

guessing himself as to what to play next. Sometimes it
reacts like a B3

tone-wise and then sometimes it doesn't. As if after
you've played a
flurry

of notes, the next part of the riffs don't
sound "familiar." Something

changes and it gives you that "oh-oh"
feeling.

I'm not a software scientist but I sense the software is
playing
catch-up

and may have some things to resolve. There is a hint
of a lack of
immediacy

as opposed to the way a tone wheel reacts. I
must surmise that trying to

digitize analog's infinitesimal increments
is a daunting task.

Papa John's clips also gave me the same feeling,
same for PJ Morgan's.

At the risk of getting broiled on this, there
are a few differences. To
use

a guitar analogy it's like playing a
Strat copy and then playing a real

Fender made in USA Strat. (One that
the factory got right..hehe..) You
get

close but after you dig in and
start to play the instrument, how it
reacts

becomes apparent and what
you can find in the original version, is
missing

in the copy version.
Therein lies the rub. Picture Tarzan swinging
through

the trees
expecting the next vine to be in the right spot for him to
let go

of
the one he's hanging on to and then all of a sudden that vine is not

where he needs it to be or the upcoming vine didn't react as smoothly
as the

previous one. Apologies in advance as these analogies don't
work for

everyone.

I used to sell Lowery organs as a day job in
between gigs after years of

playing on the road and in recording
studios dragging my B3. As you sit
in

the store playing all those
Lowery's, of course your roots are with
what you

played for the
longest time.

You look for the similar B3 responses, but they don't
happen..

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm curious as to
why someone of

Joey's stature would leave Hammond for something that
isn't as good as a

Hammond. Specially since he does not need to worry
about schlepping a
Beast

3 to any of his gigs. Not unless he can
endorse simultaneously anyone he

chooses as some artists seem to pull
off and is doing both Hammond and

Diversi.

I don't know anything of
the mechanics of the Diversi. I'm wondering if
it

has figured out a
way to duplicate the key switch stack tones?

I have nothing against
Diversi and I'm not employed by any musical

instrument firm. I wish
them well. In fact I'm a Sicilian from Brooklyn
and

my forefathers
were musically and mechanically inclined. O' sole
mio...sta

nfronte a
te.. as my Ma used to sing to me.. It's just that in being on
this

quest for tone, as all musicians at one time or another are, and now as

regards 400 pound instruments, it's important to thresh out the pros
and

cons and let the opinions fly.

The DV Solo looks real inviting
though..Never seen a full compliment of

drawbars on anything but a
chop.

Let's see how the backline industry takes to this.

Meanwhile I'm sure there will be those who will be concerned about
their

"backs" and will cash in on this. Reliability issues
notwithstanding.

-----Original Message-----

From: keyofg53
>

To:
CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Sun, 24 Feb 2008 5:46 am

Subject: [CWSG] Diversi Organ Vs Hammond

I
have owned and played a Hammond B3 for over thirty years. I have also

owned and tried

many B3 Clones including the XK3. Today I went to
the Hammond Organ
Store in

Woodlyn,

PA to look at their new
Diversi Organ. They are sold out completely of
every

model they

have but they had Joey DeFrancesco's organ there that he is currently

touring with in the

U.S. as he is in Italy right now. You would not
believe the sound of
this

organ. It was

hooked up to a motion
sound KP200S and a Motion Sound SW-15 subwoofer.

The leslie

simulation is so good I could not believe my ears. The organ sounds
better

than any real

B3 I have ever played. It blows the Hammond
XK3's out of the water you

cannot even

compare them. I
purchased/ordered the DV-Solo on the spot. It uses the
exact

same

sound engine as their full console organ. I have always been a loyal
Hammond

player and

when Joey D switches from Hammond to something
else you better believe
the

"sound" has

to be better and it is.
There are (5) different Hammond Cloned organs
in the

Diversi and it

will blow your mind. The physicist in Sweden that developed this
technology

should get

world honors. If you get a chance to hear the
new Diversi Do Not Miss
it. Go

to the Diversi

website and you can
get the schedule where Joey D will be playing it
for the

next several

months. Finally after many many years a portable keyboard that
sounds
like a

REAL

ORIGINAL HAMMOND ORGAN with a leslie simulation
that is just stunning!

Not like the

Hammond/Suzuki Hammonds at all!
John Gualtieri Garnet Valley, PA.

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