From bruce@ashbysolutions.com Tue Feb 28 08:45:43 2006
Subject:Re: Clone Wheel Recommendation for Classic Rock

Hi NJKeys,

>After 30 years of not playing, I'm back playing my keys again. I
>play in a Classic Rock cover band. I already have a Roland 300SX 88
>key weighted keyboard for my piano sounds and I need a second
>keyboard.
>
>Here's what I'm looking for:
>1) Good classic organ sounds, B3 variations etc, with leslie sounds
>ability
>2) Good synthesizer sounds, the ability to shape the sounds and
>modify them.

A lot depends on your priorities. Do you play a little bit of organ or a lot? You'll be hard pressed to find one instrument that *really* excels at both sides, so choose based on which need is greater. IMHO, keyboards that are oriented towards the synth side (Motif, Fantom, QS, etc.) do an *OK* job of the organ, but the dedicated clones do better. OTOH, most of the Hammond clones do little or no true synth sounds. (I don't consider strings or brass presets as a "synth.")

>3) The ability to add more sounds via samples etc

I bought the Fantom XR module specifically because of the ability to add samples through WAV/AIFF files. See my rig below for more details.

>5) The ability to call up sounds I've saved quickly at a gig.
>6) Relative ease of use. I like to layer sounds, split the keyboard
>etc during rehersals if we're doing a new song and I need a new
>sounds quickly.

Most of the candidates can do this. You can make life easier for yourself be arranging the patches and splits in an order that makes sense to YOU.

>7) Not too heavy for gigging.

You'll have to trade off sound vs. portability a little, depending on what you can stand. None of the leading organ clones are more than about 40-45 lbs.

> A keyboard that wont be replaced a month after I buy it.

There are no guarantees here in the 2006 Keyboard World! ;-)

>I know many of you on here have heavier gear, double manual etc but
>I've found that for me, if its much over 40bs, I'm going to have
>problems lugging it to practices and gigs.
>
>I've considered the Roland Fantom 7, Motif ES7, now the Triton
>Extreme 76 and I've toyed with the idea of a Kurzweil. I've ruled
>out the Fantom because its sounds sound a lot like my Roland 300sx.
>
>I've also had someone sell me hard on the idea of using software
>like B4-II and others on my laptop and use a midi controller for all
>the sounds I want.

As Tony said, this is NOT a simple way to get into the game. If you go this route, do so because "I can't get the sounds I want any other way," not because "this will be *way* easier than buying some keyboards and connecting them together." Expect to spend 30-100 hours (!) tweaking and debugging things before you'll be really happy with the results.

>Give me your opinions guys, I'm driving myself crazy tyring to make
>this decision. At about $2500 its a lot of money to spend on my next
>board, i want to do the right thing.

Here's the skinny on my personal system, along with thoughts about how it could be cut down:

Korg BX-3 -- good organ sound, great Leslie sim, good ergonomics. A CX-3 can do pretty much the same things, in half the size and weight. Depending on your personal taste, you might prefer a Hammond XK-3, Roland VK-8, or Nord Electro. I use mine with a Speakeasy preamp and a real Leslie, but that's my personal albatross! ;-)

CME UF7 -- a nice, light 76-key 'board with aftertouch and a bunch of knobs and sliders. Not too programmable by itself, but add a MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus and it can control just about anything. If you went this route, you might consider an organ module like the Voce V5+ or the Roland VK-8m.

Roland Fantom XR -- a great module with lots of expansion capabilities. My sounds come ~25% from the internal sounds, ~50% from installed Ultimate Keyboards and Complete Orchestra modules, and the other 25% from samples that I've bought or made, including some combo organs and a great Mellotron sample set. I'm WAY picky about sounds; you could probably get by with the internal sounds alone, if need be.

Access Virus C Desktop -- a great virtual analog (VA) synth with lots of knobs. You could possibly get by with the internal sounds of the Fantom, or opt for a $400 Alesis Micron: terrible keyboard and UI, but nice sounds.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions™ http://consult.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389 voice/fax
bruce@ashbysolutions.com

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