From bruce@ashbysolutions.com Fri Dec 08 05:41:10 2006
Subject:Re: Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?

The Hammond synchronous motor has no frequency compensation. In 1935-1955 (when all of this was designed), the concept of playing a Hammond Organ outdoors was probably unthinkable.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions™ http://consult.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389 voice/fax
bruce@ashbysolutions.com

At 08:12 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>I have heard stories about Hammond players who have had to play in a situation where a generator is supplying the power 'tuning' the organ by adjusting the generator.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Simon Beck
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] Re: Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?
>
> Gee - wonder why Hammond didn't think of that...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ann Onimous
> To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 4:07 AM
> Subject: [CWSG] Re: Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?
>
> Haven't really thought about this until now...
> Consider the following:
> Being an ex-Hammond person...in a Hammond, it uses a SYNCHRONOUS
> MOTOR to run it's tone generator. I don't recall seeing anything
> in the drawings for LINE FREQUENCY COMPENSATION. Unless they drive
> the frequency extremely high & then bring it down, I would suspect
> that if you plugged it into a power source which was 50hz, you'd
> get a slightly different tune than a source which was 60hz.
> I also have an OLD (c.1970) TEAC tape deck. It has LINE FREQUENCY
> COMPENSATION...there's a mechanical control on the back which moves a
> lever to move the belt driving the capstan from one size set of
> pulleys to another.
> ===============================
>
> --- In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, "Chirs Richmond"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thanks everyone! I'm assuming the answer to this question applies
> to
> > all keyboards that don't have any other tuning choices. I didn't
> > think it was that complicated, but I've never tuned a piano before.
> > Guitar countless times, and the whole goal is to eliminate beating.
> > Chris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of Mr Bo Roberts
> > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:11 AM
> > To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Re: Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?
> >
> > Yep ... this is why Baroque music is "broken up" ... the
> harpsichords were
> > perfectly tuned and if you played a whole chord it would sound out
> of tune
> > with the other notes.... it sounds horrible.... come to think of
> it ...
> > thats probably where the classical theory rule "no augmented 4ths"
> comes
> > from ... it probably sounded aweful in perfect tuning ... love the
> tritone
> > on a piano though ... modern tuning saved us all!
> >
> > Bo
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: rrockkey
> > To: CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 11:39:06 AM
> > Subject: [CWSG] Re: Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?
> >
> > Yes,
> >
> > Bruce is correct.
> >
> > What you have discovered is Equal Temperment. There are
> > many different temperments but ET is the one widely accepetd
> > and used almost exclusively today but historic temperments are
> > gaining in popularity for period music. In ET, mathematicaly,
> > each semitone increases in frequency by the one twefth root of 2.
> > This makes every semitone proportionally larger.
> >
> > Some charicteristics are: 4ths beat slighty wide, 5ths beat even
> > less, narrow, almost pure, 4ths and 5ths beat rate remain
> > constant up and down the entire keyboard. M3rds and 6ths beat
> > wide progessivly faster going up the keyboard.
> >
> > Turn up the overdrive and the beats will really jump out at you!
> >
> > This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are volumes written on
> > this subject.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Rock
> >
> > --- In CloneWheel@yahoogro ups.com, Lawrence Goodman
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > >
> > > Correct me if I am wrong.The keyboard is not in perfect
> > tune.The tuning is
> > > called tempering(compromis ing the harmonics to sound the
> > most in
> > > tune).Chords should have an amount of "beating"(in
> > agreement with Bruce).The
> > > test for the beating should start with single notes and single
> > drawbars.I
> > > cannot at this time check my Bx3 as it is in the shop waiting for
> > a new
> > > motherboard. But I don't remember remarking this problem.
> > >
> > > lg
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: CloneWheel@yahoogro ups.com
> > [mailto:CloneWheel@yahoogro ups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Bruce Wahler
> > > Sent: December 2, 2006 7:40 PM
> > > To: CloneWheel@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Cc: CloneWheel@yahoogro ups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [CWSG] Can a CX-3 really be out of tune?
> > >
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > I think that what you are describing is normal. The chromatic
> > scale is NOT a
> > > harmonically- -perfect scale; it's a compromise that sounds
> > reasonably decent
> > > in all keys. In addition, while C/G is a harmonically- -matched
> > interval
> > > (3:2), neither C:E nor E:G is -- one is a major third, the other a
> > minor
> > > third.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > -BW
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruce Wahler
> > > Design Consultant
> > > Ashby SolutionsT HYPERLINK
> > >
> > "http://consult. ashbysolutions. com"http://consult. -
> ashbysolutions .-com
> > > 978.386.7389 voice/fax
> > > HYPERLINK "mailto:bruce% 40ashbysolutions .com"bruce@ ...
> > >
> > > At 06:21 PM 12/2/2006, Chirs Richmond wrote:
> > > >All,
> > > >
> > > > I have a CX-3 (newer v1 updated to V2.0 software) that
> > "beats."
> > > >So here's what I'm trying: On drawbars only, just 8' or 16' + 8'
> > > >+ 2' ,etc.) playing a basic C cord (C-E-G), and when I include
> > the E,
> > > >I get a certain amount of beating, as if the E key is slightly
> out of
> > > >tune. Its worse the further up the keyboard I get. Is this
> > normal?
> > > >
> > > >Its not just this combo, but its easy to describe and
> > reproduce.
> > > >I've got no leslie sim or V/C turned on.
> > > >
> > > >Thx, Chris
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe, send email to: HYPERLINK
> > >
> > "mailto:CloneWheel- unsubscribe% 40yahoogroups. com"Clone
> > Wheel-unsubscr- ibe@yah
> > > oogroups.-com
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.4/563 - Release
> > Date: 02/12/2006
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.