From dta3923@yahoo.com Sun Dec 18 18:26:21 2005
Subject:Re: How to Beef Up a used Roland KC-300 or 350
Thanks Bob,
I will be surfing the net for one of those to ad to my collection!
Dan
Robert Manzitti wrote:
Dan,
I agree on the KC-550 having way to much low end, and the on board bass and mid control does not do a very good job of cutting it correctly, IMHO. I cut the lows via a small Rane graphic eq. That does the trick just fine.
Dan A wrote:
Thanks Bob,
The KC-550 is somewhat overwhelming on the low-end. I've been experimenting with turning the bass down on eq and tweaking it with my SE Classic pre when running through my XK-3. However, nothing seems to beat the leslie configuration with the SE for the "true" sound (whatever that is).
Interestingly, someone mentioned it made a great bass combo cab. I have to agree. My friend and bass player is a very picky player. I think he's run just about everything bass, amp, and cabinet wise. He came over to my studio without his Walter Wood setup (w/ custom cab)and ran his bass through my KC-550 and loved it!
Robert Manzitti wrote:
Walter,
I have expierenced the "going flat" woofer you talk about as well.
The first time for me was in a set of stereo speakers I make many years ago.
For a time I was into home stereo speaker building and after picking the brains of several of the engineer/techie support guys that I used to get my speakers and crossover components from they told me it happens for a couple of reasons.
One is if the woofer's cone edge design is of the stiff, accordian paper type it will loose some of it's stiffness and ability to properly restrain the cone for over travel which will cause a change in how the speaker will sound to a given level of input signal.
They said this is a normal "wear and tear" funtion of this syle of cone edging and it is accelarated by pushing the speaker to it limit, in other words playing it loud!
The other type of woofer edging material is the rubber/foam type that does not wear out in the same fashion but does break down over time like all rubber and foam does and they need to be replaced too. It seems the accordian edged style can typically handle more power and they are more popular with musical speakers....although our Bose Pa system uses foam edge speakers, including the subs and they kick major butt!
The other reason they said a woofer will go flat is because the voice coil will become overheated from driving it too hard for too long of a period without allowing it to cool down (he we go again with the loud thing!) and it will cause just a few of the windings in the voice coil to short out. Not enough to stop the speaker from working altogether but because the voice coil is now changed it will respond differently to the input signal.
I learned from this that it is not only important to have your speakers' rating of power handling be matched correctly to the amps' output but the quality of the material that makes up the voice coil and cone edging is just as important, at least for a loud rocker like myself!
I'm guessing hear but I would bet the Eminence can handle being over driven for very long periods of time without breakdown by design, as they are in so many guitar amps that they know they will be over driven and have to build them to withstand that kind of abuse.
I have two Leslies and one has an Eminence and the other has a AudioPile. Both sound great and have not failed yet. I really like the AudioPile speakers and have also built a wedge monitor that I put one in and it really sounds great.
I use a Roland KC550 for my piano and synths that I'm trying to blow the woofer on to force me to replace it with an AudioPile! I took the 15" AudioPile out of my Leslie and put it in the KC550 just to see how it sounded and the difference was like night and day. I know most people complain about the sound and power of the KC550 but on gigs my stage volume is never so loud that I have a problem with the KC550 as I use it as a stage monitor for my rig, not blasting so loud for the entire venue to hear. That's what the PA is for! But still the KC550 does sound way better with the AudioPile, and I'm sure it would with the Eminence too, so when I'm practicing I abuse the bloody thing and am waiting for it to fry!
Couple of links here, one about the AudioPile and the other is the plans I followed to build the cabinet and crossover that I used for the wedge monitor I built.
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Speakers/X-2206/X-2206_cutsheet.htm
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Speakers/X-1526/X-1526_cutsheet.asp
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/smithereens/index.html
Regards,
Bob
jake92028 wrote:
--- In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, Dan A wrote:
> Walter,
>
> What do you mean when you say the woofer went "flat"
acoustically? Are talking about some sort of break down with the
cone??
Yes, but not exactly, since I don't really know the right term for
it, but have heard it called "going flat," so that's what I call it.
I heard it up close with my own KC300 amps after pushing them hard
for nearly two years. It's not the same as the EQ term "flat" which
is no EQ applied either up or down, treble, mid, bass controls at 12
o'clock, but there is a similarity. In the Roland KC amps at loud
volume over time, it's like the fabric/paper structure of the cone
loses its design stiffness, maybe range of travel back and forth with
the input signal. Notes and chords played into them at high volume
lose the original musical response and have a dull or "flat" overall
response, almost like the speaker turned into a cardboard box, except
it still plays.
We used to take an old 80's Roland Cube-60 keyboard amp everywhere,
in case another player wanted to sit in on harp, guitar, or bass on
gigs we were playing minus bass player which was a break for me. Its
full-range 12" speaker sounded fine for almost any instrument
although it had just the basic three band EQ knobs - but a nice
spring reverb. We hit a stretch where a bass player dropped in
regularly without his own amp and used that poor old Cube with volume
set on 10 every time, tone controls too, with a low level line out to
the PA. And the same thing happened, the speaker "went flat," started
to sound like a kid whacking on a carboard box with a stick almost to
the point you couldn't tell the note being played. Maybe Roland has
been using the same speaker design for keyboard amps that they put in
the KC's(?)
After I sold my KC300's for MS KT80 amps, I was really impressed with
the Eminence woofers. So to save the old Cube, I got an Eminence Beta-
12 and put it in. It took about 45 minutes being careful, since I
hadn't swapped a speaker in years. That little amp is still with us
and sounds fine with anyone/everyone plugging into it to sit in for a
few numbers. Considering its age and abuse and the tech level when it
was made, it's still a fine amp with reverb. The speaker swap made it
almost good as new - Roland has no parts, like new pots or whatever
for them anymore. Walter j
To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Music instruments Instrument music online store Online music instrument store Music instrument stores Music instrument sale Kid music instrument
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "CloneWheel" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Music instruments Instrument music online store Online music instrument store Music instrument stores Music instrument sale Kid music instrument
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "CloneWheel" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Music instruments Instrument music online store Online music instrument store Music instrument stores Music instrument sale Kid music instrument
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "CloneWheel" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "CloneWheel" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]