From tonysounds@yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 05:25:12 2004
Subject:Re: CX3/Electro/XK3/RD170...Warning: a little long, but I promise, its NOT a rant!

It's interesting...I've heard that comment about the Electro sim muddying up the tone, and I just haven't experienced that at all. In fact, I was playing with it A LOT last nite at home, and I just dont hear it. After engaging the leslie, doing a little further tweaking with the bass/treble/output/distortion seems to alleviate any dampening I felt occurred due to the leslie....and as I was programming a lot of EP sounds I found myself doing the same thing, adjusting those same parameters to get what I wanted. Yes, turning the leslie on does change the sound a little bit, but all of these controls are very interactive; there is no harm or foul in needing to readjusting certain parameters to brighten up the tone, and those controls work wonderfully. (Ask any analog synthesist, and they will tell you the same thing...that the individuals modules are very interactive and adjusting one parameter affects the way the rest work.) A common complaint about the CX3, one which I definitely
experienced, was that the mids and top end seemed a little thin, shrill even, but most CX3 owners don't feel that way at all. I wonder if using the CX3 as a benchmark isn't actually affecting the way they hear the Electro. The Electro definitely is not as top heavy as the CX3. To me where the Electro really shines is the way it sits in the mix, which is the all-important aspect of an instrument anyway, and the Electro does a great job of that. If you're seriously considering buying an Electro, I recommend you spend $20 and order MEET THE FLOWER KINGS on DVD. Thomas Bodin, the keyboardist, uses an Electro with its leslie sim, and I think it sounds really damn good. (It's a live DVD.)

That said, all of our opinions don't mean a hill of beans until you try these for yourself. I totally respect Ed's opinion (and other members on this list as well) because he plays all the time and he knows what he's talking about, and what's more, he knows what he's listening for; but while I found the CX3 not suitable for my needs he and many others find it a great instrument. Does that make either of us wrong? No way! Sound and tone are very subjective. I think you'd be pretty upset if you bought an instrument based on opinions of people you only know in an online capacity (therefore, you haven't heard their playing and their sound to know how those opinions manifest themselves sonically) only to find out you totally disagree with their tastes. You need to play these for yourself. If you're in an area or a situation where that is not feasible, I totally recommend calling an online store, letting them know your situation, and if your credit card can support it for a few
weeks, buy all 3 contenders and have them shipped to your house where you can thoroughly audition them and find what best suits your needs. (As you know, many of the things that attract us to an instrument are intangible, and this way you can fully experience things that maybe someone else doesn't experience pro or con each particular instrument.) Then return the 2 items you don't like....or all 3 for that matter; you may find you don't like ANY of them! Remember there are a lot of folks who prefer the Voce V5 to any of these and would rather get a standalone sim box.

I'll be taking my Electro out to the next couple of gigs to re-evaluate my XK3. I'm getting burned out carrying a lot of this gear. I have been using the Pro 145 the last couple of gigs and have REALLY enjoyed it, and listening to ambient recordings of those shows, I think it sounds really good...REALLY good. I just purchased a Roland RD170 digital piano (88fully weighted keys and only 42lbs!!!!!) which I love the sound of, and has a decent rhodes to boot (very reminescent of the MKS20 Rhodes by the way). So I have been reprogramming the Electro EPs to be triggered by the RD170, which is very convenient by the way: the RD has a Midi TX (transmit) button so you can kill the midi when not necessary (way cool). I spent a lot of time last nite tweaking & playing a CP80 sound via the RD, and layering just a bit of the RD into the sound totally makes that sound happen...it gives it that bottom end that blends so well with the Electro and makes that low end detuning thing so convincing
yet not too out of tune. I found myself playing Peter Gabriel songs and digging it big time! The RD will allow you to layer 2 of its sounds, and putting in just a little pad sound behind its own piano, which is way behind the Electro's CP, and then you have the Tony Banks ABACAB sound. The RD is as slim as the Electro and sounds excellent. (We're doing another AFE tour after Thanksgiving and going to the sunny climes of....Afghanistan and Iraq, kevlar and headgear supplied --I'm not kidding! Weight of course is an issue so the Motif8 is out and now with an SKB case, I'll make the under-75lb rule now.)

Later....T

ed fliege wrote:
If no piano is needed and Leslie sim is most important - I'd definitely go with the CX-3, which IMHO still has the best Leslie sim.
As good as the tone in the XK3 is, it's Leslie doesn't appear to be one of it's stronger features, an opinion that I've seen voiced
by several in this group. However, the Electro has a good Leslie and really good Hammond tone to boot, but it's Leslie is totally
non tweakable and also tends to muddy the highs. FWIW, I not only finally got a chance to audition an Electro a couple nights ago,
I went ahead and ordered a 73 for myself, because I feel that overall it's a really good keyboard and will work out great for gigs
where I want to take a smaller rig. However I was able to take the time to A/B the Electro against my CX-3, playing both keyboards
in stereo through a pair of JBL EON 15 G2's, and also with and without my Speakeasy Stereo Rack, and I really was impressed with the
Electro right up until I played the CX-3 next to it. On the CX-3, being able to move the virtual mics a little closer to the
virtual horn I feel really dials in the illusion of moving some real air, whereas the Electro's Leslie sounds to me like it's been
placed with it's back up against a wall; it's just not as pronounced of an effect, yet it's ramping and F/S speeds are quite
accurate, so it still sounds very much like a real Leslie. Given the Electro's already good ramping and F/S speeds, if Clavia would
add in software the ability to move the virtual mics and fix the overall EQ of it's Leslie, it would be one hard Clone to beat (and
that's not even taking it's excellent epianos and clavs into consideration!). Tonewise, both keyboards with the Leslie sim turned
off sounded pretty equal to me, with maybe a few extra points to the Electro for a little better Percussion. So, for overall
Hammond AND Leslie cloning together, I still feel the CX-3 is the better choice, but there are two issues I feel are important and
worth pointing out. The CX-3's Leslie must be tweaked to get the best results out of it; it's effect is not as good straight out of
the box as the Electro's is. Also, no matter which Clone you play, anytime you rely on the internal Leslie sim instead of a real
Leslie, you should always try to play in stereo whenever possible, as there is a world of difference between a mono Leslie sim and a
stereo Leslie sim.
I have a theory about why the CX-3 still has the best Leslie sim to date, but that's going to have to be another post.

Ed Fliege
k2mojo@groovedaddies.com

From: "Barry"
> You're going to play in this band - only organ, no piano. You can use a CX3, Electo, or XK3. You are going to play through a
> nice PA or keyboard amp, but no Leslie, no tube preamps. You don't care about looks or weight or size. You just want to most
> realistic Hammond Organ + Leslie sound possible. which of those three do you choose....

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