From dave@voceinc.com Fri Jul 02 06:35:30 2004
Subject:Re: Endorsements

Tony,

It was just a general though for an improvement to the list. I didn't
expect such a large reaction. I hope you didn't think the suggestion was
aimed at you.

I don't see why you'd risk losing your deal. Doesn't Hammond publicize its
endorsers? Isn't this the point of endorsements?

/Dave

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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: tonysounds
Subject: Re: Endorsements

I was pretty open when I got my "endorsement" deal with HS, not that it's
anyone's business. But let's be perfectly clear: I got NOTHING for free,
and I will GET nothing for free. That kind of endorsement is for those
icons, those top of the heap guys, of which I am not one, either in status
or talent.

That said, HS was very kind in giving me an XK3 for dealer cost, and giving
me the first one (actually #2) out the door (living 25 minutes away didn't
hurt). This kind of "artist endorsement" would be available to just about
anyone that took the time and effort to chase it down and had some
visibility to offer the company in return. I actually have gotten 2 similar
endorsement offers that I did NOT take advantage of. I am very grateful for
this little perk, but it it NO WAY influenced me to buy the XK3. I had made
overtures to several suppliers when David Jacques did his NAMM report, and
none of them had any info: I knew more than they did thanks to David and
others on this list. (One of the great benefits of being a member to a great
group such as this one and Organ-ized, and NordElectro, thank you very
much!) And lest my motives be suspect, I want it to be known that I would
never recommend gear to anyone that I would not pay for myself, whether I
owned it or not.

As anyone who has followed this list for any length of time knows, I'm a
picky SNOB; and while I have criticisms of just about every piece of gear I
own and used to own, I'm quick to point out they all have positives as well.

Dave, when I got my Voce V5, I loved it. Yes, it has a very weak
percussion; IMO, it has a useless Chorus/Vibrato. BUT...that said, until I
got my XK3 (that I did pay for, just a little bit less than most of the
other folks here, and I mean a LITTLE less...I still coughed up plenty of
dough for it; and they didn't comp me the expression pedal either), I
thought your V5 had the best, hands down, most ballsy raw Hammond tone of
ANY of the clones. I said it before, and I'll repeat it. Even when I got
all warm and fuzzy about my Electro purchase (and I was one of those that
just HATED version 1...I couldn't understand what the big deal was about), I
still said the V5's raw tone was better. You'll see that in any of the
posts.

And even though the Spin II was pretty reviled on this list, I got one as
part of a trade, and as I posted here on this list, solo'd up, unaccompanied
by any other music, I'm not all that crazy about it, in context with the
other instruments, I think it sounds pretty decent, especially for a
non-air-moving stomp box. And hey, did YOU ever give me anything? No. I
didn't ask, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made a difference!

As much as I didn't like the CX3 (and I wanted to...I bought one, and a
flight case for it), or to be more accurate, what I thought of as its
thinner top end, I still say that it has the best Hammond ergonomics of any
of the clones, even better than the XK3's (except for that dual drawbar
thang). Korg got a lot of things right. I just didn't feel an affinity for
it or its keyboard. (Um, they never gave me anything, and I did ask...I
still have my Wavestation, and I used to own an analog CX3 as well as an
M1r, an M3r, and an O3rw.)

I loved a lot of things about the VCombo, and still do. It's huge bang for
the buck. After playing it for 3 hours a night for almost 40 consecutive
nights, I didn't like it's keyboard, or its leslie sim. But for an
all-in-one jobber keyboard (and I mean "jobber" in the most positive way), I
don't think you can beat it still. It has a thick percussion (which I am
able to dial into my Xk3) and a fantastic "spit" and grind to it (which I
also carried over).
It had a nice keyboard too. (I asked Roland for some stuff a few years ago,
and they were very forthright with the info that "we don't do endorsements
with ANYone; we're proud to say that every Roland keyboard you see on stage
was paid for." lol)

I still love my Electro. If I can't bring a leslie or my Pro-145 (which I
paid Sweetwater Sound for thank you!), the Electro is still the best onboard
leslie sim going, even better than the XK3 I think. It aint replacing my
leslie, and in the almost 2 years that I've owned it, I think I used it for
a 2 month tour sans leslie, and maybe 4 other gigs with no leslie. But I'm
still keeping it. (I never asked Clavia for one....I should have. It seems
they have a decent artist endorsement program.)

And if you go back and read my review/comparison of the Pro-145 and Leslie
21 System (made by Hammond Suzuki), I think the Leslie 21 sounds better, but
as I stated, for the purposes of small and effective, the Pro145 is still a
better bet. But if tone flat out is the only factor that matters, but you
still can't bring yourself to carry a leslie, then the Leslie 21 is the way
to go. (I carry leslies, so the Pro145 is my "I'm way too freakin tired to
carry this thing up 2 flights of stairs" alternative...although the guys in
my band say they'd rather carry the real leslie up there, and they do.)
Motion Sound did not give me this unit, but I did enquire about an
endorsement, and while they weren't as encouraging as Hammond Suzuki was,
they did make me almost the same deal. I just didn't take them up on it.

So Dave, now that I've put my business out there for all to see, of which I
have no obligation, hopefully you'll see my motives are altruistic. Unlike
a certain high profile keyboardist who I have called a gear slut, I don't
get my stuff for free. I don't take endorsements deals with any product
that I wouldn't pay to own and use. (I've turned a nice one down for that
very reason...but that wasn't a freebie either.) And this high profile guy
has changed brand loyalties more than I have changed organ clones.

I get nothing if Hammond sells an Xk3 or not. I actually risk losing my
deal just by disclosing this information. But my integrity is VERY
important to me, and certainly more important to me than saving a few bucks.
I suspect your "chaos on the digital recording forums" is a smokescreen but
that's neither here nor there. I would have bought the XK3 from Sweetwater
or BT Productions if I wasn't lucky enough to have gotten a very positive
response from the folks at Hammond Suzuki. They saved me a little money,
but believe me when I say it made no difference whatsoever. If they didn't
give me any kind of deal, and they would sell me one before Sweetwater or BT
Prod or anyone else, I would have gone there.

I hope this makes you feel better, but I suspect it won't change what you
think.
T

Dave wrote:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I don't want to see this list degenerate
into the type of chaos I've seen on the digital recording forums. I think
it's time that folks on the list come clean and reveal their endorsement
deals so we'll all be on the same page when they post. I think a lot of
animosity could be avoided if we knew whose getting gear free or for cheap.
A lot of these differences would vaporize if we had a little more info.

/Dave Amels

Voce