From winansml@bellsouth.net Sun Sep 28 06:15:53 2003
Subject:RE: The Barker and various clones
Organ --> Preamp --> Amp --> real Leslie or MS
is NOT the same as
Organ --> Simulator --> Preamp --> Amp + Speakers
My setup is similar to the second one listed above. My question is, I also
use an Ernie Ball volume pedal. Should it come before of after the Leslie
simulator in the chain (or elsewhere)?
Thanks,
Mark Winans
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Wahler [mailto:bruce@ashbysolutions.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:04 PM
To: CloneWheel Support Group
Subject: [CWSG] The Barker and various clones
Hi All,
I've spent a little time recently with a "barked" Speakeasy Classic, the
Korg BX-3, and the Nord Electro V2.0. Here's some information that I hope
will be useful to the group:
- Believe it or not, the Electro's output is even lower than the Korg! I
ran the BX-3 and Electro into my mixer, with the volume/level/expression
knobs all the way up, same drawbar settings -- 88 8888 888 and then 88 8000
000 with percussion -- and the Leslie simulators off, and there's always
about 4-5dB of difference in the output levels, in the favor of the Korg. I
turned the simulators back on and the results were still the same. That
puts the output levels of the most popular clones like so:
Electro -- Lowest
Korg/Roland
Voce
Ham-Suz -- Hottest
The Barker was meant to level the playing field between Korg and
Ham-Suz -- actually, it takes it up a notch -- using the general consensus
that "Korg's output is lower than the rest" at face value. Well, it's not
true: The Electro has the lowest output. In order to get a similar sound
as the Korg, we will be releasing a "Barker-E" tuned to the needs of the
Electro shortly, which will boost the gain a little more for Clavia
products. It will also be possible to modify an existing Barker to better
suit the Electro.
- I played around with the use of a built-in Leslie simulator through a
Barker. This is an area where truly, "your mileage may vary" (YMMV). To
explain why, we need to look at what I'll call the "last frontier" of
clone-dom:
Organ --> Preamp --> Amp --> real Leslie or MS
is NOT the same as
Organ --> Simulator --> Preamp --> Amp + Speakers
This seems like an obvious statement, but the results are not as obvious.
For "warming" preamp levels, in fact, the two audio chains sound very close
to each other. This is why the Speakeasy preamp is so popular -- it helps
hide the differences between the two setups. This is a good thing, since
most of the modern modeled or sampled clones have no way to patch the preamp
in where it really ought to sit.
However, when you turn the gain up into Samba Pa Ti/Gimme Some
Lovin'/Child In Time territory, the sound similarities start to break down.
The bass rotor simulation causes the level of the input signal, and hence,
the distortion to rise and fall. This is not what a real Leslie does; it
takes a steady level of overdrive and throws it around the room. Some of
the acoustic tricks used to make the simulators realistic probably add to
the mix. The result includes a kind of comb-filter thing going timed to
the lower "rotor" pulsing. The timbre, level, and character of this
side-effect varies with the clone, amp and speakers used, and the level of
overdrive. Whether you like the final results or not is completely up to
your personal taste. YMMV, and probably will.
There are ways to minimize these effects -- set the "mic distance" on the
lower rotor to a very high value, so the rotor pulsing almost disappears; EQ
some of the side-effects out; lower the organ level -- but you can't
completely eliminate them at high overdrive levels. Also, you can't do much
about it if your clone doesn't allow a lot of tweaking. In particular, the
Electro's organ tone seems to have more issues with these byproducts, and of
course, the Electro doesn't allow tweaking the Leslie simulator.
So, here's my quick take on how things match up:
* Korg+Barker + preamp BEFORE the rotation -- a marriage made in heaven!
* Roland+Barker + preamp BEFORE the rotation -- probably great too; I
don't have enough user data to be sure yet
* Electro+Barker + preamp BEFORE the rotation -- good, but needs even more
gain (Barker-E) to be as good as the Korg sound
* Korg/Roland/Electro+Barker + internal sim -- YMMV. I suggest that you
run a test:
Borrow a PA mixer. Take the cable that you normally plug into the
Speakeasy, and use it to send the organ to one of the mixer channels, then
send the main output(s) of the mixer to the Speakeasy.
Clone+simulator --> Mixer --> Speakeasy --> Amp+ Speakers
Set all the gain and volume knobs so that you have unity (0dB) gain
through the mixer, with all the tone controls flat. Make sure that the
channel you are using isn't clipping (overloading), because this will spoil
the test. Your clone and preamp should sound just like they always do, but
the setup will be a little more complicated. Now turn up the master gain on
the mixer to boost the signal into the Speakeasy by about 9-10dB, as seen on
the meters. Make sure the mixer still isn't clipping, and see if you like
the results. Play around with the preamp knobs, and the volume and tone
controls on the organ, but leave the mixer as-is. If you're happy with the
sound, the Barker will give you the same thing, without the need for a mixer
and extra cables. If you don't like what you hear, though, you probably
won't like the Barker, either.
* For a player who uses both a Leslie/MS and a simulator at different
times, and doesn't like the results of the above test, a Barker bypass is
probably a good idea. That way, you can use the Barker with your spinning
speaker, and kick it out when using the simulator. If your Classic is a
stereo rack, a single Barker on the same channel as the Leslie/MS interface,
with a bypass switch, is the way to go.
Regards,
-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions™ http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389 voice/fax
bruce@ashbysolutions.com
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