From ynottnaro@yahoo.com Sat Oct 25 12:29:57 2003
Subject:Re: (was Nord Electro) ranting about the CX3

You make some good and valid points Josiah. But
here's the thing: when you buy a new guitar, do you
buy a new amp to go with it???? No. (Unless you're
Joe Perry of Aerosmith.)

Moreso than guitars or bass (which I play), keyboards
have a tendency to sit in a mix much differently than
they do when you're sitting at home. And changing your
amplifier, assuming you have something of good quality
to begin with, every time you buy a new keyboard isn't
exactly the right approach.

In the case of the CX3, I used it in a number of
settings: with a Yorkville 300K combo (which works
quite well with my Motif8 and with my Electro, as well
with my midi rack when that comes out); with a
Speakeasy and real leslie; and direct into the PA with
no monitoring.

The CX3 had a real tendency to get lost in the mix.
The complaint about the Cx3 is a common one, another
one is that it is top-end heavy, or a little harsh or
shrill. For others, this is a wonderful instrument.

Yes, evaluate your monitoring circumstances and try to
determine what is the cause of your discontent before
trashing the gear. But if you know your rig, and
other keyboards perform well through them, especially
other instruments with the same characteristics (in
this case, organ clones like the VKstuff or Electro or
V5) then you can safely determine what is the culprit.
If a piece of gear isn't performing the way you think
it should while others of its ilk are, and you have
exhausted the possibilities inherent in the instrument
itself, then you know you have to replace that
equipment. Unlike a guitar whose neck you like, whose
tailpiece not only has great intonation but adds to
the sustain, but maybe has pickups that fall short of
the mark, you can't swap out items inside a keyboard:
it is what it is.

Like my VCombo story, there are sometimes inherent
limitations in a piece of equipment that you need to
either overcome through programming and tweaking, or
live with.
T

--- Josiah Hoskins wrote:
> One of the things that puzzles me most about many of
> these rantings is that most of the blame is
> attributed to
> the clone and the amp/speaker system is at least as
> much
> much of the blame, if not more in the cases I hear
> about on this list.
>
> I play guitar, bass and keyboards. Bear with me for
> a minute.
> When I am judging a guitar or bass I work to find
> the guitar or
> bass that plays to a certain standard (neck,
> fretwork, etc.) and
> that has pickups that have the sound that I am going
> for (single
> poles, humbuckers, etc.). Then once you have the axe
> that you
> like then comes the search for the real sound color
> comes from
> the amp/speakers. You can take the greatest axe and
> make it
> sound awful with a crummy amp.
>
> Now for keyboards:
>
> There are many aspects to this equation but a simple
> test is this:
>
> Do you like the way your clone sounds through
> headphones or
> studio monitors (i.e., a listening device that
> attempts to minimally
> color the sound)?
> Can you get the sound you want or close? If you can
> then your
> job is to find the most transparent amp/speaker
> system available.
>
> This is my case. I have a CX3 that satisfies my axe
> requirements.
> Number one it plays like and organ. Number two it
> has a setup, i.e.
> where the buttons and knobs are that are as close to
> a B3 as anything
> available. Number three it has control over many
> variable that allow
> you to make it sound like you want (I use my own
> variations of David Jacques
> CX3 settings). Number four I can get the sound I
> want through headphones
> using the leslie sim.
>
> BTW, have the B4 and have made my own clone
> comparisons that I won't
> bore you with but they did not meet my criteria
> (however, they may meet
> yours).
>
> So, for me the next issue was finding an amp/speaker
> that would give me
> volume and keep the sound I like. After trying Makie
> 450s, Rolands, Carvins,
> SWR full range bass amps, JBL Eons, I found that all
> colored the sound and
> did even more so at higher volumes. The one
> amp/speaker combo that gave
> me headphone transparent sound at volume was the
> Barbetta 41c, which is
> what I use to gig with (I also use a Yamaha S80 for
> piano and synth sounds).
> Note my S80 also sounds great through the 41c (again
> I like the way my S80
> sounds and want to reproduce its sound, not change
> it - except by
> programming :-).
>
> The other approach is that you can't get the clone
> you have to satisfy you
> through headphones or studio monitor and you want to
> use an amp/speaker
> to color the sound to get you where you want. This
> is a much more tedious
> process (one that I have gone through many, many
> times with guitars and
> basses)
> as you go in search for THE tone.
>
> So, what set me off to write this message in the
> first place?
>
> I see many messages on this forum trashing clones,
> when what they are
> actually talking about is the clone, amp/speaker
> combination (usually based
> on the amp/speaker that they have at the moment).
>
> Each of the clones have their strengths and
> weaknesses and so do
> pre-amp/amp/speakers.
> It would be helpful to us trying to understand your
> discussions if you could
> separate the two
> issues. For example, I like my clone sound so, how
> can I get it loud without
> changing that sound. Or, my
> clone is weak on output, or bass, or mid-range, or
> too bright, ... what is a
> good pre-amp/amp/speaker
> to help correct a perceived weakness in the clone.
>
> So, hopefully this will help some of you as you
> search for the best
> combination of:
> CLONE
> 1. TONE
> 2. Play and feel
> 3. Flexibility or programming
> 4. Leslie sim (or not)
> AMP/Speaker
> 1. Color or NOT
> 2. Maintaining its color or transparency at high
> volumes
>
> Happy (not sad...) hunting,
>
> Josiah (joho) Hoskins
> Austin, Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 2:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [CWSG] (was Nord Electro) ranting about
> the CX3
>
> >
> > In a message dated 10/23/03 11:37:38 PM,
> djacques@csulb.edu writes:
> >
> > <<>> If you can, I would suggest that you wait
> until January when the new
> > CX3+ from Korg will be introduced at NAMM... <<>>
> >
> > Dear list,
> >
> > It's 3:30 am and I am baffled!!! I just suffered
> through four sets with
> the
> > CX3. I've had a great time with the CX3 on
> transparent gigs (such as
> jazz),
> > but I cannot get a CX3 to come even close to
> cutting it on louder,
> non-jazz
> > gigs even though I have the Speakeasy, and even
> though I've tweaked the
> patches
> > using all the wisdom on this site. Still, I know
> good people here are
> happy
> > with the CX3. So why can't I get the CX3 to COME
> CLOSE to cutting it on
> the
> > louder gigs?
> >
> > The CX3 sound seems to have insufficient body, no
> matter what I do with
> > preamps. When you dial in a truly clear sound, it
> is shrill. With warmer
> sounds,
> > I have to turn louder in search of clarity, but
> then things get all woofy
> and
> > badly loud in the midrange so I give up, and then
> turn down again.
> >
> > On the other hand, the V5 cuts it on the gig with
> ease right out of the
> box,
> > even with zero tweaking (even though I can't stand
> many things about the
> V5,
> > such as its hideously error-prone midi and its
> wall wart). The V5 has a
> clear,
> > throaty tone, with a good pitch center to each
> note.
> >
> > I'm selling the CX3. I feel like a thickhead who
> can't figure it out.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send email to:
> CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
=== message truncated ===

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