From k2mojo@groovedaddies.com Sat Feb 08 02:28:12 2003
Subject:OT: Mackie mixers - no slouch board

(Ray wrote)
> ...chances are that you are using a Mackey or other cheap MI quality mixer
which has NO headroom. Send it a hotter signal at that point and it will
> distort-- Even if you don't run the channel into clipping, the
combination of your signal and other channels can (will?) overload the mix
bus. > This is one of the main reasons that Mackey (and many other cheap
mixers) mixers sound "bad". But in most cases these boards are sold
to > and used by inexperienced users who never figure out that they need to
keep the channel trims well below clipping. Eventually they grow out of >
the Mackey board and replace it with a Soundcraft, Allen and Heath or other
better mixer

(Bruce W. wrote)
While I wouldn't use Mackie boards to record a multi-platinum album,

Ray, it's apparent that you don't care for Mackie boards, but right off the
bat the fact that you can't spell Mackie correctly makes it hard for me to
take you entirely serious. I'm 45 and have also been wearing the "soundman
hat" for over 25 years, and like Bruce my first mixers were Tapco's.
Currently I own two Mackie 24*8Bus consoles, one for live work and one for
recording, and I've never experienced the distortion phenomenon you
describe. In fact, the way you describe it, it sounds like more than one
input at any time will overload the bus and cause this distortion, which
would of course render the mixer useless and I find this claim ridiculous.
FWIW, I trim everything up to where the peak light flashes and then back it
off so it doesn't (flash), and I do agree with you that understanding the
gain structure in ANY mixer is key to getting the best sound, but not doing
this procedure correctly certainly doesn't make Mackie mixers cheap.
Obviously, a soundman who doesn't understand the basics of gain and eq can
make the most expensive mixer sound bad, but if I read you correctly, you're
claiming that bad design on the part of Mackie is causing distortion at the
mix bus. It sounds to me like you're blaming Mackie for what is actually
the fault of the individual soundman.
Personally, I think for the money (my first 24x8 cost nearly $3000, not
exactly what I would call 'cheap') these boards hold their own very well
against a lot of mixers that frankly I feel are overpriced, and I do have
some experience with Soundcraft, Spirit, A&H, and Neve boards.
I'm apparently not the only one who thinks so. Putting your musical tastes
aside, did you know that both Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca" and
Cher's "I Believe" were both recorded on the Mackie Analog 8*Bus console?
And not because the recording engineers didn't have the funds to get a
"better mixer". In fact, "Livin' La Vida Loca" has the distinction of being
the first Billboard #1 record to be done completely within a hard disk
system (Pro Tools). The tracks were recorded through a Mackie 32+24*8
Analog console to a 64-channel Pro Tools system. Apparently the recording
engineer felt the Mackie was a clean enough board to use for this all
digital recording.
You're not the first person I've encountered who snubbed Mackie in favor of
overpriced British boards, and if you want to throw away your money that's
not my problem. But for myself I don't plan to "grow out of" my Mackie
board; it works just fine for me and a whole lot of other successful
recording artists and engineers whose accomplishments I respect.

Ed Fliege
k2mojo@groovedaddies.com
www.groovedaddies.com

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