From ynottnaro@yahoo.com Thu Aug 07 09:20:21 2003
Subject:Re: Electro 2 reviews

I have to second Bruce. While I have never had to
replace any parts on any of my Roland gear because of
defects or flaws (just normal wear and tear), their
product support, while becoming a bit more difficult
to attain, has always been there. Where initially you
could get right on with a techie and get your problem
fixed, now it requires a wait on the phone, and
sometimes a call back, which still isn't horrible.
Most computer companies will have you on hold in a que
for half hours at a time. Yamaha on the other hand,
when I discovered a bug in their EX midi implentation
(does not interpret midi volume on the initial burst
of info at the program change...you have to use a
volume pedal or some other CC to affect the volume
AFTER the program change), they discovered I had V1.6
and they were on 6.0. They sent me a free set of
chips...they may have actually given me a free install
too if I'd gone to one of their service centers and
gone through the service center's wait period, but I
had a friend who works at an audiophile shop who is
also a qualified Yamaha tech, and he did it for free.
Yamaha has been very good about responding to problems
in a timely fashion.

T

--- Bruce Wahler wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> >> It was a HUGE improvement in all areas, from V1.
>
> >> Imagine what it will be like by V5.
> >
> >OK, but how much can you do with the same hardware?
> I remember KAT (Alternate
> >Mode) and T.C. Electronic's Finalizer. They took
> the unit's back, changed the
> >Motherboards, drilled the chassis and added the new
> hardware.
> > Where did people like that go? That is madness.
> Once Roland replaced the
> >Motherboard on my JV-1080 (6 yrs old) for free.
> They also gave me a brand new CD
> >burner AFTER my warranty expired on that too.
> PLEASE CLAVIA, do likewise. I
> >will be an Alternate Mode, TC Electronic and Roland
> buyer for the rest of my
> >life because they won my allegiance. I also
> received hands on help from Steve
> >Hayes of Speakeasy, Bill Brown of BB Organ, Al Goff
> of Goff Professional and
> >Tony LaBrasca of BT Productions. I owe them for
> their time, dedication, education
> >and highly experienced opinions. These folks are
> caring, period. It is
> >amazing that Roland could fall into that catagory.
> Try getting help from K#*G or
> >Y#$%^*ha!
>
> I can completely understand your sentiments. I,
> too, have been victim of buying broken hardware that
> stayed broken. However, there are some "mitigating
> factors" in the race for the Electro V5:
>
> 1. I noticed that Clavia offered a free V2 upgrade
> to V1 users. I also noticed that they did *not*
> offer a free front panel upgrade to add the new
> lettering and the MIDI activity LED. Asking for
> free software, when the software already exists, is
> one thing; asking for free hardware is quite
> another. The implied rationale is, "Hey, you
> already made enough money off me last time. This
> time, it should be free." Is that really the way
> business works? If someone called you up and said,
> "You played at our engagement party. How about
> playing a 'free upgrade' at our wedding?" what would
> you say?
>
> 2. Many times, the cost of collecting, repairing,
> and re-distributing the gear costs many times more
> than the actual changes. Posting a software upgrade
> on a website is almost "free." Recalling and
> upgrading products already in the field, OTOH, is
> very expensive. I'm not all that familiar with the
> KAT and Finalizer. You mentioned fairly extensive
> hardware modifications (motherboard replacements,
> holes drilled, hardware added); were the changes
> performed for free? If so, it was probably because
> the original product was flawed, and the
> manufacturers felt compelled to correct the problems
> for their customers. This is the sign of a good
> company who respects their customers. If that's not
> the case, though, and the manufacturers were
> actually adding new hardware features for free, then
> they may have impressed you, but they're not very
> good businessmen. The object of business is to STAY
> in business, and giving away free product is not a
> valid long-term solution. I was actually
> under the impression that the people who made the
> KAT had gone out of business.
>
> 3. Software development also costs money --
> sometimes, a LOT of money. The biggest cost is in
> what is known as "regression testing." This is
> where someone has to go back and make sure that the
> *new* features don't break any of the *old*
> features, and if there are problems, fix them. It's
> a time-consuming, difficult, expensive process.
> While most Electro owners would like to have
> additional bells and whistles on their keyboard,
> very few of them are contemplating actually *paying*
> for this. This means that the updating costs have
> to be somehow factored into the sales projections
> and SRP for the next generation of products. At
> some point, the answer will be, "We can't afford to
> keep doing this." Maybe that point is already at
> V2?
>
> Oh, and by the way, I actually have received help
> from both Korg and Yamaha, for free: replacement
> parts, ROM updates, and technical support. Maybe
> I'm just lucky.
>
> Regards,
>
> -BW
> --
> Bruce Wahler
> Ashby Solutions™ http://music.ashbysolutions.com
> 978.386.7389 voice/fax
> bruce@ashbysolutions.com
>

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