From dfibraio@comcast.net Wed Apr 09 12:17:20 2003
Subject:Re: gearing up to upgrade gear

I am in NJ. Lucky you, you have an a70. I wanted one of those.

At 02:56 PM 4/9/2003, you wrote:

>Damon,
>
>Where are yoou located? Perhaps someone with an Electro could drop by and
>let you demo it. I think it sounds like the right solution for you, in
>conjunction with the Motif. I use mine with a Roland A70, and have no
>regrets.
>
>Ken
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Damon Fibraio"
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [CWSG] gearing up to upgrade gear
>
> > Let me take your points one at a time.
> >
> > >The Electro has excellent EPs and Clav, and the organ is very
> > >good. Personally I prefer the CX-3 organ tone by a
> > >whisker over the Electro, but the difference is small and the
> > >Electro's great EP/clav sounds more than make up for it (not to
> > >mention that the Electro is about half the weight!).
> >
> > Well, the weight thing is good. I am not sure I care if the cx3 sound is
> > better than the nord, Ijust don't want to lose anything from my vk7 by
> > changing over. if Iwanted a worse organ sound, I'd just get another
> > workstation keyboard. The light weight is a relief and the fact that the
> > organ sound, even in the mp3 demos sounds really good, is a good plus. A
> > friend hated the leslie sim, but Ithink it sounds OK, just as good as the
>vk7.
> >
> > >I don't think that heavy distortion is the srongest point on the
>Electro,
> > >but the
> > >overdrive sound is quite servicable and it'll pretty much do what you
> > >want, I think.
> >
> > Well, as long as it works. I don't always go for full steam smoke on the
> > water sound, my main distorted sound is like that of Tony Kay's or the
> > sound of Perfect Stranger's by Deep Purple. As long as the Electro can hit
> > that, I am fine. The vk7's distortion seemed OK for the task. Again, Ijust
> > want to be sure I am not taking any steps back from the VK7. Whatever I
> > replace the VK with has to be at least equal to it. I have been avoid the
> > vr760 due to the bad reviews of the vk8 I keep reading here, so that's why
> > I have been leaning towards the electro, since the cx3 only does organ,
>and
> > Ineed more than that.
> >
> > > The Electro output is a bit weak for some reason, and
> > >so a preamp would help, though it isn't necessary.
> >
> > I use the power amp in my mackie ppm808s, so I would just have to make
> > adjustments. Probalby not the best solution for an organ, but hell, what
> > else can I do
> >
> > >The Electro Leslie simulation is as good as the best competition.
> >
> > That's what I thought, too, in fact, it sounds just as good as, if not
> > better than the vk.
> >
> > >As to your specific needs, Damon, there is something else to
> > >consider. Switching between organ and piano on the Electro is s-l-o-
> > >w. I would estimnate it takes a full half second to switch between
> > >the organ and the other sounds, maybe a little more. When I have
> > >less than one beat to switch from clav to organ in an uptempo tune,
> > >this is a problem.
> >
> > Well, maybe in that situation, that is where I can set up the motif to
> > handle any spillover work.
> >
> > > Add to that the small and not-so-visible preset
> > >buttons and the Electro can be pretty awkward on quick patch changes
> > >in/out of the organ.
> > I would imagine that is processor intensive, as it has to quick load in
>the
> > samples and such. I wish i could put my hands on an electro to learn its
> > mappings of buttons and such. Also, the drawbar buttons, how do they work
> > to change organ registrations in realtime as opposed to drawbars?
> >
> > > Changes between non-organ sounds or between organ presets is
> > > instantaneous. I work around this problem, but it's
> > >an annoyance.
> >
> > Iwuld have figured that much. Hence the reason that I still have a motif,
> > to handle anything that I can't handle quickly with the electro. The motif
> > rhodes sounds are quite nice, so if Ineed the electro organ and can't wait
> > the second or so for the switch, the motif can cover it.o
> >
> > > Anorther small annoyance, when you change programs
> > >while holding a chord, the chord disappears from under you until you
> > >restrike thye keyboard on the new sound(!). Given the stuff you play
> > >quick changes are obviously a part of your needs, so you should
> > >consider that. I'm not trying to disuade you from the Electro, I love
> > >mine and think it's the most playable digital axe I've ever owned
> > >(and I've owned a few), but these are things to consider.
> >
> > Again, the motif can probably cover that. Iusually hate changing sounds on
> > a keyboard in the middle of a song unless Ihae to, due to the fact that I
> > am operating by touch exclusively, while playing so I try to keep one
> > keyboard dedicated to one sound for an entire song unless I have no
>choice.
> >
> > >Reading your interesting post, I think an improved MIDI setup might
> > >ease your life on stage quite a bit. Since that's not really your
> > >forte (pun intended), it would be worthwhile to hire some MIDI jock
> > >from a music store for an afternoon to get your live setup more
> > >comfortable. Set all your stuff up in the living room like on a gig,
> > >have the manuals handy for all your gear, and show the guy the sound
> > >changes you frequently make on a gig. Seems like a worthwhile
> > >investment. He might be able to do a few quick programming
> > >improvements over the factory sounds as well.
> >
> > I have thought of this time and time again, but I would have to look
>around
> > for that help. Ultimately, I wanted to be that midi tech, but it doesn't
> > seem to be possible with all the displays and inaccessible manuals and
>such
> > out there. I want to play, but I love programming and I love gear and my
> > inate desire to be self sufficient has been plaguing me for some time. If
>I
> > knew of a good midi tech who would help me, I would definitely enlist his
> > services, but it would have to be a bit of an ongoing project anyway.
> >
> > >A knowledgable tech could also set up a sequencer (one of your synths
> > >must have a decent
> > >sequencer) to setup all your gear at once for each sound set you use
> > >with just a few button presses, but even that may be more than you're
> > >comfortable with. Anyway, just a thought...
> >
> > It's a good thought. The motif6 should be able to cover that fine. I used
> > to do that with my old Ensoniq TS10, set up sequencer templates with
>sounds
> > for quick changes and the like, but I stupidly sold that board and no
>other
> > board has been that intuitive to a blind person that I have found. A blind
> > friend uses the motif and that is why I traded in my ex5 for it, so
> > hopefully I can get up to speed with that and get back to being a
> > functional player as opposed to somebody who can't even use the gear he
> > spent money on. that's what I want from all of my gear, to be able to
> > access its features. Teh VK seems to be another board that gives me
>trouble
> > when I want to go outside of its presets and its physical knobs and
> > drawbars, and without the manual, it becomes even more complex. The
>electro
> > and the cx3 have their manuals readily available and I do have them and I
> > will be reading up on the electro and hopefully this can be fixed in time.
> >
> > >Mark Longo
> > >
> > >--- In CloneWheel@yahoogroups.com, Damon Fibraio
> > >wrote:
> > > > Hmmmm. and to think this started out as a cx3 versus electro thing.
> > >anyway,
> > > > I don't know. Ireally wanted to either hang on to my vk or get a
> > > > cx3/electro set. I have enough problems with the jp8080 in a live
> > >setting.
> > > > Usually I use the motif in addition to the vk for stuff, so trying
> > >to
> > > > control a hammond module while doing other stuff with it is going
> > >to drive
> > > > me blind, no pun intended. Because of my limitted ability to access
> > >the
> > > > screens on these things, Ihave multiple keyboards around to ease my
> > >midi
> > > > setup. My situation being what it is, if Ihad a techie, I could
> > >probably
> > > > get away with less gear, but I don't have anybody helping me, so
> > >unless it
> > > > is on a button, knob or slider or I can figure out the exact button
> > >pushes
> > > > to do what I need to do, I stick to stock sounds and carry multiple
> > > > keyboards. I have been looking at the Electro because of it
> > >beautiful
> > > > rhodes, wurli and clav sounds and respectable organ tone. I would
> > >then be
> > > > able to use my motif for acoustic pianos, assuming the electros
> > >won't pass
> > > > in a live setting, and all my synth/lead/alternate sounds and my
> > >jp8080 to
> > > > get my analog heaven thing going on. Currently the jp is controlled
> > >by an
> > > > ax1 roland remote keyboard controller, which a nightmare enough to
> > >deal
> > > > with, especially when you don't need it for the whole song and it
> > >hangs
> > > > from its strap afound you neck nudging the motif and sometimes
> > >hitting keys
> > > > on it. But enough of that. I love my VK7, but when we do Roundabout
> > >by Yes,
> > > > god do my hands hurt, and sometimes, I really would love to just be
> > >able to
> > > > hit a button and go to a Rhodes patch in a pink floyd song without
> > >having
> > > > to grab the motif, especially when Ineed a lead sound from the
> > >motif and I
> > > > don't want to grab the ax1 just to trigger the jp8080 for four
> > >bars. Do you
> > > > see my issue here? However, hearing the rumors of the cX3's
> > >superior organ
> > > > tone, I am wondering what to do. All Iwanted to kow is if the
> > >electro's
> > > > organ tone is better than the vk7. I think the electro's demos are
> > >cool,
> > > > but they don't sspotlight my needs. Iwant to know how that organ
> > >sounds
> > > > when you crank up the distortion for the deep purple/early yes
> > >sound, like
> > > > for songs like Perfect Strangers, Starship trooper, shit like that.
> > >And
> > > > those keys, I would imagine are probably much easier on the hands.
> > >God,
> > > > maybe I should just get a tech to set me up properly so I wouldn't
> > >have to
> > > > deal with all of this mess and only have to use two keyboards and
> > >the
> > > > module. I don't know. Iwanted to avoid the v5 due to its lack of
> > >onboard
> > > > leslie sim, and draggin around another box just to get the leslie
> > >is not
> > > > really what Iwant. Hell, just trying to convince myself to give the
> > > > speakeasy a chance is enough to make me nuts. i love gear, but
> > >Ihave
> > > > limitted transport help and need to get it down as small as
> > >possible, or at
> > > > least to make the gear I do bring with me do the most I can get it
> > >to do.
> > > > That;s why I am steering away fro mthe cx3, and vk7 and looking
> > >more at the
> > > > electro, because at least there are more possibilities. maybe the
> > >roland
> > > > vr760 would be another option, but I don't know there. I am just
> > >trying to
> > > > get a good answer here to make my playing life a little easier.
> > >This is not
> > > > a gear lust situation, fi that's the case, I want a triton, a nord
> > >lead 3,
> > > > a kurzweil k2600, oberheim ob8, minimoog, and a few more ax
> > >controllers,
> > > > not to mentio the motif7, (the 6 is too cramped with 61 keys), and
> > >my old
> > > > Ensoniq TS10 back and Taurus pedals. Need I go on? No, Ijust want
> > >to have
> > > > my motif, my jp8080 and something with a hot organ sound, leslie
> > >built in
> > > > that can also do good pianos and electric pianos. I don't want to
> > >drag more
> > > > modules and stuff with me. So, my original question, is the
> > >Electro's organ
> > > > sound superior to the VK7? From what I can hear, the organ tone is
> > >very
> > > > nice, but I am trying to see how the leslie and distortion holds up
> > >to the
> > > > vk7. I assume also that you can use the other effects on the organ
> > >tone,
> > > > which would be great if we ever did mid 70s Genesis tunes and I can
> > >put the
> > > > flanger on the organ to get Tony Banks organ sound. OK, enough of
> > >my rambling.
> > > >
> > > > At 11:51 PM 4/8/2003, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Hey Damon....
> > > > >
> > > > >Reading your last post regarding your vision,
> > > > >transporation issues, etc., I think Bill might be on
> > > > >to something. If you can't use a real leslie, a V5
> > > > >and a Spin II might be of some benefit (especially the
> > > > >incredibly simple user interface). The SPIN II takes
> > > > >a lot of heat on this list, but I can tell you, as a
> > > > >(ahem) gearaholic, as much stuff as I've gone through,
> > > > >I can't bear to sell my V5 NOR my SpinII. And if you
> > > > >want to sell your VK, the Motif makes a good
> > > > >controller for this (I've used my Motif8 in this
> > > > >capacity) because you don't have any real independent
> > > > >controller issues to resolve. If you're using a foot
> > > > >controller with the Motif presently and you want to
> > > > >use it to control the Motif in a "Master" setup, just
> > > > >get a volume pedal and dedicate it to the V5. The
> > > > >Ernie Ball works great for this, and can be had from
> > > > >Guitar Center for around $50 if you abuse the guy hard
> > > > >enough. The V5 has great authentic raw tone, and if
> > > > >you don't use chorus/vibrato much, you can exist with
> > > > >the unit as is, but I would still recommend having
> > > > >Bruce at Ashby Solutions do the percussion mod, seeing
> > > > >as you do a bunch of prog rock if I remember
> > > > >correctly. I only use my V5 at rehearsals these days
> > > > >with the SPIN II, but I'm not selling it as I think
> > > > >it's a great back-up.
> > > > >
> > > > >T
> > > > >
> > > > >__________________________________________________
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> > > > >To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@c...
> > > > Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker
> > > > aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger
> > >screenname:
> > > > dfibraio@c... Yahoo messenger name: Damon_m_f
> > > > Band sites: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com: Mystify:
> > > > http://www.mystify2001.com
> > > > Personal web site: http://www.damonfibraio.com
> > > > Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at
> > >http://www.nhbradio.com
> > > > "Celebrate the moment, As it turns into one more
> > > > Another chance at victory, Another chance to score
> > > > The measure of the moment, Is a difference of degree
> > > > Just one little victory, A spirit breaking free
> > > > One little victory"--Neil Peart of Rush
> > > > "Seize the day, and don't you cry, now it's time to say goodbye
> > > > Even though, I'll be gone, I will live on."--Dream Theater, A
> > >Change of Seasons
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> > Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net
> > Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker
> > aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname:
> > dfibraio@comcast.net Yahoo messenger name: Damon_m_f
> > Band sites: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com: Mystify:
> > http://www.mystify2001.com
> > Personal web site: http://www.damonfibraio.com
> > Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
> > "Celebrate the moment, As it turns into one more
> > Another chance at victory, Another chance to score
> > The measure of the moment, Is a difference of degree
> > Just one little victory, A spirit breaking free
> > One little victory"--Neil Peart of Rush
> > "Seize the day, and don't you cry, now it's time to say goodbye
> > Even though, I'll be gone, I will live on."--Dream Theater, A Change of
>Seasons
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>To unsubscribe, send email to: CloneWheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net
Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker
aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname:
dfibraio@comcast.net Yahoo messenger name: Damon_m_f
Band sites: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com: Mystify:
http://www.mystify2001.com
Personal web site: http://www.damonfibraio.com
Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
"Celebrate the moment, As it turns into one more
Another chance at victory, Another chance to score
The measure of the moment, Is a difference of degree
Just one little victory, A spirit breaking free
One little victory"--Neil Peart of Rush
"Seize the day, and don't you cry, now it's time to say goodbye
Even though, I'll be gone, I will live on."--Dream Theater, A Change of Seasons

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]