msgidx_2127

From richardon@nexgo.de Fri Sep 28 20:01:11 2001
Subject:Aw: organize CX3 "brightness"

Hi George !

Hope you dont mind, that I tried to examine the brightness problem with
some analytic methods, not using Trial and Error.
Regarding every parameter on its own.
Its amazing. Some guys buying a 2500 $ organ, never listen to each
single drawbars they buyed.

Again "Thank you" for your idea, that the problem is depending on a lot
of parameters, for example the horn/rotor distance too. If you read my
(perhaps too long) Cx3 tours, it seems to be clear, that CX3 sharpness
is in frequencie range 2-3 kHz. The results of my little tours are
only describing some facts. Providing no solutions. I would like, there
could be a little bit discussion, to delete this brightness problem of
Cx3, without making Cx3 too smooth. Key click and harmonics of drawbars
above 3 kHz should be not be deleted ! ( A real problem )

In the moment my measurements are estimated.
(My osscilloscope is defective). If you assume the values are right:

> 4-Eq-(As a last resort)
> Another little thing I tried was to make all the (internal)
> Eq setting -10

1) EQ is not last solution, its 2nd solution !
2) internal EQ seems to be same as external EQ knobs !

3) Treble seems to be a 3 kHz Filter adapted to sharpness. It would be very important to know: Is it a bandpass or a highpass ! And is it wise to set Middle to -10 ? Seems to be a 600 Hz Bandpass. (Bass is no prob.)
Setting Middle and treble to -10 is same as emphase 1 kHz - 2 kHz.
I dont own a hammond, some measurement FULL DRAWBAR with Terz Analyzer
on an old Hammond would be really usefull. Can you do that ?
For some cases eyes work better than ears.

> 3-Horn/Rotor balance

I "measured", that only rotor owns a filter with cut off frequencie above 250 Hz. Choosing 100% rotor will cut off high draw bars above
250 Hz. Using 100% horn there seems not to be any cut off frequencie.
( Neither for Type1 or Type2 )
So to filter with Horn/Rotor Balance is same as Low Pass filtering,
at a very low frequencie (250 Hz). Hmm, seems, that most of Cx3 Preset programmers knew this method to reduce 3 kHz.
Producing Mellow, Smooth Cx3 sounds, (like VK7) I dont really like.

Ok I said Joey sounds like piano player. Didnt know, that he is such an famous Hammond player. Sorry. But Joeys sound is my favorite sound on Cx3.
Seems to be an good engineer too ! Hmm, He is using a BALANCE of,
56% HORN. Sorry ORGANIZE, but to solve the problem with HORN/ROTOR
balance, seems not to be an good idea. To use an 250 kHz Low Pass is not
an good idea to get rid of 3 kHz frequencies. Just listen to the key
click reducing horn balance. Thats not good. Same for harmonics.
Even if Treble is high pass instead of band pass, its the better method.
Cut Off frequencie being higher. Ok, its a physiological problem.
Every musician tends to emphase any treble knob. Regard HORN/ROTOR
BALANCE as a 250 kHz High Pass. You really want to damp all frequencies
above 250 Hz ?

We should measure the BALANCE parameters again very carefully.

> 1-Reduce Horn Distance

A better idea. I made some experiments. Only with the horn parameters. 100% Horn. Leading to similar values you suggested for a well adapted sound. Experiments including turning microphones
( Leslie stopped, changing Spread parameter, instead of speaker. )
Amp Type, Distortion, Horn Mic distance seem to be very important
parameters of Cx3. With Rotor distance i am not shure.
I not only tried to listen how the distance parameter has influence to
the 3 kHz problem, but also has influence to the amount of Am and FM modulation together with the spread parameter. Turning Leslie off and
scanning room with mic spread is very interessting. For example you will see, that number of amlitude maximums are depending on frequencie.
( Kammfilter Combfilter? effect )

Cx3 is much more than some sinus waves with leslie effect ! Listen to
this strange noises, choosing 100% rotor, playing high notes.
Sounds like the breath of an Leslie.
Never heard such noises on my Vk 7.

Kammfilter (thats german):
E.G. for 3 kHz there are 5 or 6 maximums, steppimg through Mic spread. Value 99 seems to be an exception.

Back to 3 kHz:
As i mentioned before. HORN/ROTOR Balance is the worst method.
To decrease TREBLE is better. To do it with a 3 kHz Bandpass would
need some external devices ? OK I ll check, treble being a band or
highpass. Can be easily done with key click. Thats white noise.
I am shure: Best way to solve 3 kHz prob is, to find good parameters
for Leslie Simulation. This unit being responsible for the prob.
The Leslie parameters are depending on each other. I will write my
experiences with this parameters in next mail.
Looking forward to many other Cx3 user, sharing their expiriences,
based on this or similar measurements.
Finally, together, we will get perfect controle over the brilliance problem. I am absolute shure !

regards

richy
europe

Did i wrote something wrong ? Or mp3 files on my homepage being too
bad ? Or you, just having to less time ?
Still I would be glad to receive some CX3 SYS EX Messages from you.
If I better stop conversation, tell it to me.

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