From tande.adamson@btinternet.com Thu Oct 11 12:01:48 2001
Subject:Re: Another Larry Ranting (Rant on)

Rant away,
I agree with you almost 100%, but there have been some developments. Korg
has expanded the drawbar potential on their new keyboard and E-mu has
sampled, flanged, blah blah'd, possibly boeing'd, and definitely
deeestorted good style, and given room
for endless experiment with their B-3 module.

I have found ( as I posted previously, ) that by using this module together
with a Voce V3, using the E-mu Leslie patches and the Voce's SPIN'd patches
fed independently to a mixer, I am hearing sounds which are genuinely (well
at least to my cloth ears) indistinguishable from a real deal mic'd
B-3/Leslie, honest, x my heart etc. The two units together are in a
marriage made in Clone Heaven. I have sold my Hughes and Kettner,
something I never thought that I would do.
But in addition to this phenomenon, the
filters and effects of the E-mu allow the samples to be sent to new quantum
states of tonal wonderment even beyond Don Leslie.

Don Leslie is keen on the Theatre Pipe Organ, and he has, I believe,
installed in his home a digital 'pipe' organ, but he too is not above
mixing
technologies if it works, as he has real wooden tibia pipes, as digitals
just won't do.

I believe that using the E-mu samples and the Voce together, the blend
works, where no simulated Leslie will work on its own and where the E-mu
samples don't work 100% on their own either.

The Leslie is at present, I think, impossible to simulate totally, and
although much is understood about what makes it works, there is an element
missing in simulations which is captured by recording the real thing.
I wonder whether, as most of the parameters can be simulated well, ( the
Voce SPIN in particular is extremely successful in this) , it is perhaps
the sound waves which are bent by being spun which is the missing element.
Whereas a lighthouse will send out straight waves of light as the lamp
refectors turn, sound waves are bent by the air resistance, particularly
the lower frequencies.
I noticed this when I bought a Leslie 312, with real horn but simulated bass
rotor, I found that the x factor had gone.
Were you to run a straight continuous line of speakers past a listener,
there would be most of the elements of a rotary sound projector including
doppler, the element missing would be the curvature of the approach and
retreat of a spinning speaker, and consequent 'bend' in the sound, the x
factor that Don Leslie discovered.
snip>> if not, then why didn't Don get a Nobel Prize for such
> profound discoveries in acoustics? < He would have been Sir Donald, in the UK by now.

There is definitely something that hits the spot, causes HAS and grown men
to develop hernias and it ain't all down to tonewheels.

Thomas; from Much Rambling in the Marsh (UK)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Schurr"
>
> Abbreviated and inaccurate history of the world so far:
>
> Ok, around 70 years ago we got the Hammond tonewheel organ
> from the Hammond Clock Company. Easy enough.
>
> Mediocre sales, solid growth, sturdy product.
>
> THEN a Don Leslie fellow starts spicing things up with his
> sound modification device that is intentionally neither
> hi-fi nor meant to be.
>
> Sales start to climb a bit. Not explosive but undeniable
> gains are had in the marketshare, though this is not
> tracked as a factor in those days (pre WW2)
>
> War's over and now, after a house and a new car, people
> start buying organs and pianos and boy does Hammond
> start cleaning up with their Spinet line. Don Leslie
> ain't starving, either.
>
> Some jazz artists start using Hammond/Leslies for
> their new sound. People like it. Classical organists
> prefer centuries older technology and shun Hammonds,
> players, and venues. Though initially disappointed,
> no one is completely surprised, really. The new Rock
> and/or Roll Music prefers the nasally piercing
> Vox but Hammonds soon appear in steady presence
> some years later when the music comes to age and
> when Prog sets in. Jazz ain't changed. Classical
> still hates everyone.
>
> Mid 80's: Midi, synths, and phasers deal Hammonds a
> near-fatal blow. Fire sale prices are common. Garage
> sales become occasional organ adoption agencies. No
> one has a vehicle big enough anyway.
>
> My rant:
> Throughout History (per above) Don Leslie made a career
> of "ruining" the sound of a Hammond. Millions of units
> sold! We all know the tales of yon lore. Why izzit OVER??
> Why is the one design of the 40's where it all stops??
> Where are the new pioneers of organ sound hardware?? And
> if not, then why didn't Don get a Nobel Prize for such
> profound discoveries in acoustics?
>
> Leslies are rare. Reviews are tough. Parts are getting
> scarce and therefore expensive. So why not move on?
>
> Where are the recordings where there is a Hammond
> that is neither running direct nor using a Leslie??
> But still sounds "good"?? Where is the phaser/flanger
> Hammond? Or, FTM, where is the inverted, reverse
> sampled, real time modified Hammond?
>
> This running back to the 40's is disheartening. Dunno
> just what it would look like, but it'd be nice to see
> some actual refinement of the Hammond/Leslie instead
> of so darn much archeology!
>
> Or maybe this is all the more refinement there's ever
> gonna be.
>
> Rant zone clear.
>
> Larry
>
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