From las8323@rs175174.ks.boeing.com Sat Jul 07 13:31:30 2001
Subject:Re: [OT] Opinions: Keyboard vs Korg CX-3

Mark,
Thanks for your input. In spite of my respect for you and my usual agreeing
with you, I should clarify - as you indicated -- and pronounce futher
outlandishments :-)
>
> I've been trying to ignore some of the more outlandish pronouncements I've
> been reading lately, however:
>
> No human can tell a NI B4 recording from a straight
> >Hammond recording -- all things being equal, of course.
>
> Just curious but what other things are to be accorded equity? Recording and
> playback? Or the intrinsic features of the B4 or Hammond itself? I'm
> assuming the software clone would be played through a Leslie (spin or no
> spin) since a B3/c3/etc would be amplified in this manner also.

Urban Legend #2437: An Op Amp manufacturer (714? izzat the #?), tired of
accusations of "colorization" from the Recording Elite(ists) demo'ed an A/B
setup. One side was something like 1000 of their IC's in *series* and the
other was straight wire. Story goes that very few could tell the diff and
even then not dependably or repeatable.

The timbre issue is inarguable! Consider "The Hammond Sound". What is that?
Ok, sure, a 1965 B3 w/ Leslie 122 (yummy). But whaddabout stuff like, oh,
preamps with old tubes
old caps
drifting resistors
TG with misaligned pickups
plus or minus a re-cap job
extra oil in the vib
hum cancellation coils
and that's just a few that don't cause partial malfunctioning.

When a old Hammond shows up with these ailments it is said to "add character"
or perhaps "personality" and when the ailments are completely cured at the
hands (and $$) of a tech, the same Hammond is said to be "hot" and "super"
because these same ailments are absent! I contend that such forgiveness is
only available because we happen to *know* itsa Hammond. Such perfection
of sound from a clone is often considered inexcusable. This sounds a tad
hypocritical to me -- but that's just me opinion.

Equal means, largely, the same playback and recording conditions. That is,
of COURSE any half-wit can tell a clone through speakers from a Hammond
through a Leslie. But, I believe that were you to take the exact same
Leslie and hook an A/B/C switch to it and connect 2 console hammonds and
a clone there is NO one that can distinguish the 3 -- and certainly not on
the first try.

So, I've a BV from Boston and a C from Talahassee and one has been dropped
and abused often and the other is pristine in every particular. Someones
gonna tell me that they can tell either of these from a tweaked clone??
Someone's gonna spot the NON-Hammond?? It may be possible, but it's gonna
hafta rank up there with Bigfoot, Elvis, and UFO's -- for me, anyway.

>
> IMO clones are a necessity for the gigging or space deprived organist, and a
> great alternative to maintenance hassles etc of a real Hammond, but
> really...there is an aural difference. A very significant difference between
> a clone and a real Hammond/Leslie combo. Much like Minimoog plug-ins and amp
> simulators, these products are helpful and cost effective, however few of
> them really capture the essence of the instrument they are trying to
> emulate. Some do, most do not. Clones have never sounded better than they do
> now, the Cx3 is an excellent machine for example, but some find the keyboard
> difficult. On the other hand the XB2 has a real 'waterfall' keyboard, but
> some find the sound could be improved. The B4 has some good sounds but..etc,
> etc, etc.

Interstingly, the B and C's have spring-steel return springs on the keys while
the A's have coil springs, posts, and nuts. I prefer the A. Which Hammond,
then, is the 'clone'? Again, IMO, the wide berth is given to Hammond in
forgiveness and the clone's feet are held to the fire by what I see as both
a changing and impossible standard.

Though you are right. Nothing plays like a Hammond -- yet. My secret project
will remain just that :-)

>
> Depending also, on your style of music, bear in my how many people still,
> and always will, play a real Hammond "all things being equal". I really like
> my Voce/Rotoshpere, but I sure wouldn't record with it if I had a choice.
> And I do have a choice...we all do.

Agreed!! (aah, back to normal :-) You raise the point of playing and gigging.
I know of but one solo act (Ron Baldwin in NJ), though I've never caught his
show (skating rink, b3, 14 leslies :-). Everyone else plays with other
people. And that, by definition, masks the sound even more. Matter of fact,
if I were part of a 2guitar horn band, I wouldn't even *think* of playing
the real thing.
>
> As for the young man researching, polling, budgeting his possible clone
> purchase, (all are good things to do BTW) another idea would be to your
> local music emporium and play the model you think you may wish to buy. Ask
> if they rent, see if anyone is playing locally in your area to hear it in a
> live situation. Asking others opinion is what a list like this is all about,
> but the only way to make a truly informed purchase is to get as much contact
> with the instrument as you can.
>
> Good luck
> Mark P.

Good advice as usual, Mark

Larry