From rgafner@pressroom.com Tue Nov 07 08:28:18 2000
Subject:Re: [Voce] V-3 Double Manual Hookup

Thank you for the return.

A) I have tried various midi cable re-routings and checked each of the
keyboards to verify communication with the V-3 and individually they
communicate at the correct channels and then when played together one seems
to co-opt control. Upper manual Midi is at 2, lower at 1. Pedals are
off,Split is off. Consequently, the same note pitch comes out of each of
the keyboards when the same note number is depressed on each of the two
manuals. Upper manual Midi out to drawbars in, from drawbars (Main DB
position) out to lower manual Midi in, from Lower manual midi out to the
V-3 Midi in. Is a Midi box really necessary to pull this operation off?

B) The printed owners manual says that a keyboard split setting is only with
one singular upper manual, defeating the 2nd manual.

One scenario that seems to be somewhere on the path , is a patching where
all notes are silent and do not communicate at and below C4. Changes in
octaves, thru transposition, seem to make the tones play, but the notes at
and below C4 remain silent and do not communicate with the V-3. IS this
info a flag on patching or settings?

Also,
I must admit that I've had utterly no contact with a B3 and Leslie so i've
not investigated it's idiosyncrasies, but doesn't the B3 and it's V-3
brother (or sister) allow different, independant tone qualities on different
manuals and the same note number (eg. C4) to be played at approximately the
same time, thus giving two different sonic qualities. The current situation
is not like that.

RG
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From: Bruce Wahler
To: VoceSupportGroup@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [Voce] V-3 Double Manual Hookup
Date: Mon, Nov 6, 2000, 9:01 PM

RG,

I have been using a two-manual V3 setup for a couple of years now, and I
think I've learned most of the ins and outs of it. I can tell you how it's
SUPPOSED to work -- in reading your description, you may have a MIDI or
operational error, or you might have something broken in the mix; it's hard
to tell which without more information -- and you can take it from there.

For simplicity's sake, let's ignore the pedal manual for now. (Overall, the
pedal manual is exactly like the Lower manual, but it only has 25 notes,
rather than 61.) We'll put the Lower manual on CH1, and the Upper manual on
CH2.

Both manuals should respond to drawbar changes on their respective channels.
Both of them also respond to the Morph parameter -- again, only on their
respective channels -- so you can actually use four sets of drawbars, if you
can find 'em. If you only have one set, you can choose to connect it to the
Upper or Lower channel. If you change the Morph on CH2, the CH1 tone should
stay the same as before.

Calling up patches works in a similar manner: In our example, sending a
Patch=11 (P11) message on CH2 would call this sound to the Upper manual,
while sending it on CH1 would map it to the Lower manual. What confuses the
issue a bit is that while the V3 allows the Upper and Lower patches to be
saved together in splits, it does NOT work in dual-manual modes. If you are
on Upper=P11 and Lower=P22, and you send a P12 on CH2, the Lower patch stays
at P22; you must send a second patch change message on CH1 to change the
lower timbre. I tried faking the V3 out by setting a "split" with the split
point below the lowest C on the Upper, but that just results in a fully
muted Lower manual.

The "global" settings -- keyclick, hum, overdrive, vibrato/chorus, volume,
expression, Spin, and EQ -- can only be controlled by the Upper, which is
why a single set of drawbars is usually mapped to the Upper channel.
Likewise, the percussion settings only affect the Upper; a B-3 only allows
percussion on the Upper manual, and the V3 follows suit.

That's how it SHOULD work, unless something is broken in your setup, or you
have the Upper channel set to Omni mode. The only other anomaly that I've
seen is that if you set both manuals to the same timbres -- say, 888800000
-- and play the same note on each manual, you don't just get a slightly
louder note; there are some (unwanted) high harmonics that get added as
well. Why is anybody's guess. It only happens when the two manuals are
playing the same note.

Best regards,

-BW

At 07:27 p 11/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:
Any advice on what I might be doing wrong in trying to set up a two manual
V-3 set-up?

Before I had a 2nd Midi controller, I had successfully (?) set up an upper
manual (Midi controller and V-3 upper manual receive on the same number) and
then set up a Roland PK-5 Pedalboard set by dialing in the same, but
different from the upper manual, Midi channel into both Pedal on the V-3
and on the PK-5 . The Pedal default number could be anything but I chose
the low, bassy sound of a preset suggested by Bruce Wahler.

Now I have the 2nd Midi Controller, Upper Manual set to transmit on 1,
receive in the V-3 on 1. On the Lower Manual, I have the controller on 2,
V-3 set to lower manual receive on 2. No bass pedals set at this time.
There seems to be a variable setting for tone preset for the lower manual
which I set to any number that sounds good. Theoretically this setting
should remain and sound out when played? Right?

Then I play the lower manual, initially the lower manual sounds out the
setting and then when I play the upper manual and then the lower manual,
both manuals seem to mimic each other and sound the same note and pitch.
Only one note will sound if the same note and pitch is depressed on the two
midi manuals, upper manual ahead of the lower or vice versa (ie. the 2nd
note value depressed is silent).

I thought that the V-3 would allow two different settings to be assigned to
each, upper and lower. and that the same note (eg. C4 ) on each of the midi
controllers would result in both notes sounding out, even if played
simultaneously, irregardless of note strike order, etc.

Also, I have set of drawbars. These regularly are wired to affect the
upper manual? Yes?

I've followed the V-3 manual but have this fundamental issue of the two
manual hookup.

On what manual does the modulation morphing occur when two manuals are used?
I have used that morphing feature alot when only using the upper manual, to
great effect.

Any ideas?

Organically,
RG

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